Tournament Fishing Participation - How do you decide?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jeff Grimes on August 3, 2015 at 7:03pm

Good Topic Jordan,

I have heard a lot of guys discussing this exact topic around the campgrounds and watering holes during tournament weekends, an I think you pretty much summed up how a lot of the opinions were leaning towards.  

I do not have a job that allows for me to be off every weekend for pre fishing or tournaments, so my tournament choices are more limited than some.  When I DO choose, I look at where the fishing quality is better or the fishing better fits my "skills" or "favored techniques" .  Confidence and Lake Knowledge are factors also, but at the beginning of the year, I (we) try to pick the locations based on the time of year ( factoring in weather, stage of the fish in spawn etc, and past experience or confidence)  More than anything, I like to pick tournaments on places that I like to fish more than the other options.  

For guys that are not in the money the majority of the time, there is not enough incentive to fish a trail for points or to qualify for the championship.  I have heard a lot of guys say that they quit fishing because they felt like they were donating their money to the same 10 teams every time.  Hard to argue that point, because  of the expense now days to enter a tournament, gas , motels or camping, taking time off work etc. Return on Investment is very limited for 90% of the anglers in the NW. $300 or so entry, $150 gas boat and truck, food, camping $35, or motel( $125) .....its a $400-$500 couple days possibly and that doesn't factor in loss of earnings from work.

The State only gives out so many permits, and the tournament directors all know when the "prime" times are for different places are, so the competition is fueled and they each try to sway more guys to their tourney than the other. I don't blame anyone for trying to get their tournaments out there and having choices other than the same couple options every year such as the ABA or NWBASS.  I like the Open and Invitiationals as well, because they have been scheduled well in the past couple years well enough to not conflict with the trails.  It is obvious to us all that the market is getting diluted , but I also believe that there are fewer Bass fishermen out there willing to shell out entry fees as well.  

I think that I (we) will continue to pick and choose to our likes or dislikes based on schedule. 

my 2 cents 

Permalink Reply by troy kelly on August 3, 2015 at 7:54pm

I agree with both of you, and  if you live on the westside you can add another $100 to that total and that doesnt count a weekend of prefishing.  Your looking at at least a top 5 finish to cover expenses in NWBASS at least.  For Mike and I its the competition and friendship that brings us back to each event although when you look at it from a real monetary perspective it makes zero sense.  

Also we cant be alone in this but the number of times we have said to each other "I would never do that to someone" in regard to sportsmanship is not a welcoming sight to our tournaments.  We have had good events and still discussed why the heck we do this on the long drive home.

I know NWBASS has had a significant participation drop off this year alone.

Permalink Reply by Mark Byrne on August 3, 2015 at 8:29pm

Jordan all your points are valid, the issue is what the angler is trying to get out of the tournament experience. Many see this as a stepping stone to BASS Opens and Elite Series and most as weekend recreation. Some see it as an education, an opportunity to learn to be a better angler. When the tournament events no longer meet the needs of these basic goals they will fail. In Washington we have been very lucky to have so many who will put the work in to make these events a success.   

Permalink Reply by Angie Dover on August 3, 2015 at 9:37pm

As the tournament director for ABA East and West I think I listened to all the suggestions I received, mainly fish new lakes and change the location of the championship. I have found I made some people happy and some not so much :) it's hard to find scheduled that makes everyone happy. I hope I run a circuit people enjoy fishing and want to come to. Quick drivers meeting, early bast off for top water :) awards done quickly! Plus a lot of laughs, I enjoy talking during registration and at weigh in you guys and gals crack me up, I really had a fun 2015 and hope you did too!
I think I've done a good job of setting ABA apart and that's validated by having more angles than in previous years. Somethings I don't have control over but I work hard to communicate your input to ABA.
This is your circuit, keep your input coming.

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on August 4, 2015 at 8:05am

Good input Angie and I agree you have taken that circuit a step in the right direction but as we both know your hands are tied tight by the higher ups who think they know best.

Permalink Reply by Russ Baker on August 4, 2015 at 2:24pm

Larry Williams and I started the Big Bass Classic events because we felt that there needed to be something different to be offered to all anglers who wanted to fish tournaments in the NW. We had surveyed over 100 anglers from 3 states asking them what they wanted in a tournament circuit. We briefly discussed with these anglers what we were putting together regarding BBT and here are some of their comments to us: 1) I want to have a chance to cash a check and with this format I feel like I have an opportunity to do so. 2) I want to fish lakes with the best opportunity to catch big fish at the best times to fish( We all want this)  3) I want an opportunity to fish in the championship - current formats do not allow me the chance against top 25 teams in the state. 4) I want to cherry pick events (no circuit likes this) to match my strengths. 5) I want to have the opportunity to fish out of my boat and win incentives. 6) I want the opportunity to fish for bigger cash pay-outs and not win a boat - " I already have one" 7) A 2 day format wanted. These are just some of the comments we received from anglers.

So after much discussion here at Limit Out Marine we decided to make the Big Bass Classic into a circuit that is now called the Big Bass Team Trail (www.bigbasstrail.com) that provides each and every angler the opportunity to either fish one or more events, are professionally run 2 day team events at $250 entry fee, have both hourly payouts and a big pay-out at each event, offer incentive payouts from Phoenix of up to $7000, other highly valued prizes and give the anglers a higher chance of making the cut to the championship.

We offer a unique team trail that never has been offered before in the northwest and feel that there is a great opportunity for anglers to participate in a format where they actually can win some big money and still have fun doing it.

Our schedule just got confirmed with WDFW and its going to hit the right waters at the best times for catching some very Big Bass.  

Jordan thanks for starting this thread as its a very good item to discuss and allows anglers to give their input into a topic that is important to all of us. As a tournament organizer we try to give the best value for your angling buck. We welcome your input and are always looking for suggestions on how to make this circuit better.

 

Permalink Reply by P.J. Koshi on August 4, 2015 at 3:28pm

Well as someone who has yet to fish a major circuit here is my 2 cents.  The state has too many tournaments.  There are so many I might go as far as to say most of them are not financially sustainable from a business standpoint and they are not easy for the anglers to justify fishing based on the likely hood to get a good return on their investment like Jordan mentioned. NW Bass is obviously the highest level of competition right now and someday I intent to be a member when finances are more adequate. ABA is not far behind in the level of competition and a few opens get a very competitive field as well.  Many people that know me and have read my posts on here from the past know that I am a huge advocate for club communication and collaboration in the interest of cutting down the number of tournaments overall. 

How I choose what tournaments to fish right now

- Quality competition at an affordable price. This is why I joined WBA and why I continue to be active in club fishing.

- Lakes I like to fish. Right now this why I cherry pick opens and why I fished TBF Qualifiers this year.

- Times I like to fish for bass on the lakes I like. I like to fish a lot for a lot of different things at different times.  This is where schedule comes into play for me.

Permalink Reply by BigBass Dez on August 4, 2015 at 4:15pm

Good Thread JD :

Problem : All of the current Tourament Directors have their own agenda as it relates to planning Lakes and dates for events through out the season . These guys never sit down together and actually talk out major topics like Conflicts , Overlapping events , etc .

Solution : All of the current Tourament Directors need to reconsider their own agenda as it relates to more than just planning Lakes and dates for events through out the season . Please consider the dedicated anglers that come out and support the cause . These directors should sit down together and actually talk out major topics like Conflicts , Overlapping events , etc .

The #1 statement that i have heard from all directors from all organizations are the exact same

"Traditionally, we have always held our events on that particular lake and date so why should i change things on my end "

I agree JD , That we have waaaay to many events  through out the year and yes it does force anglers to cherry pick based on many of variables like Time of the year , Personal strenghts & skill set , lake location , etc.

I really dont know all of the right answers here guys but i do recognize the area's of concern . I honestly dont see anything changing here in washington until the the above problem becomes our reality , at least that is a starting point in my opinion .

So to answer your question Jd .

# 1 Yes , Too many events for our small bass community (april thru june is insane every year) lol

# 2 First and foremost My partner and i pick events based on the Fishing fun factor , Period  . Secondly , we just try and come back year after year and continue to support the events that we have always fished no matter the lake location or time of the year . We are never afraid to fish new bodies of water !  We welcome change and exploring new tournament formats !

Message Directors : PLEASE take into consideration the small group of tourney anglers that come out and invest our personal time & dime when time before planning events every year . As everyone already knows washington state has an adequate amount of dedicated anglers that can and will support all directors agenda's . It would be super cool and very considerate if you guys would put our needs and wants first on your list (i know thats selfish, but we are the entry fee) . Allow your  planning to center around the masses and not the one director in charge .

Has anyone ever received a questionnair in the mail from any director asking about good choices of lakes and preferable time of the year to fish them ?

Message to Anglers : Anglers that fish TBF & B.A.S.S. why is it that you guys dont show up to the meetings when these topics are discussed ?  Thats why the same 7-8 folks are always picking our schedule , No one else is there to object .

Dez 

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on August 4, 2015 at 4:35pm

BBD - I have to give Angie Dover from ABA credit on the fact that she asked the regular anglers about their preference on lake selection, specifically on the west side. She really did work hard to put together a schedule on the west side that appealed to as many as possible - but you will never make everyone happy. I also think it's worth acknowledging that Angie fought hard to get the championship on Banks this year which adds a welcomed change to a championship that traditionally seemed to be dominated by the same 4-5 teams. The ABA's issue come more so from the top down.

I also have my opinion on the other circuits as well, but will only share if requested by the directors as to not cause any waves publicly. The primary purpose of this post is to get feedback from the anglers on the number of tournaments and what events they go to and why. I think a secondary topic separate from this is what does the ideal tournament trail look like for anglers - not the lakes or schedules, but format wise. 

Permalink Reply by Henry Dover on August 4, 2015 at 5:22pm

JD-
Thanks for asking what we as tournament anglers want.

#1 What do I think about the number of tournaments in general?
I believe there are too many tightly stacked in prime months. I would like to see some events break off into fall, winter, and early spring. Our state hasn't reached the point where we have week night events or night tournaments in general but I hope one day our sport grows to see that.

#2 How do you decide about which ones to do?
I want a challenge and become the most rounded angler I can. That's why I original became a tournament angler. I have my likes and dislikes in lake picks but my reality is lake picks should challenge you as much as weather or your just a recreational angler not a tournament angler.

Permalink Reply by Jake Anderson on August 5, 2015 at 7:46pm

I fish various tournaments for all kinds of reasons. Too many to mention. Some I think I have a crack at. Some, I want to test myself or force myself to learn a lake I've never fished. I was going to fish ABA to qualify for championship This year because it was inexpensive enough to fish a couple events solo... Then I had some boat problems, and so that got shot.

Tournament directors certainly have room for a myriad of creative ideas to market and differentiate themselves, as well as attract new blood, and they aren't exhausting that, but to be fair, that is hard work.

Collaberation in scheduling is something that should change, but even if they set up the year perfect, not THAT many anglers can fish multiple circuits, so I feel that is overstated some.


I'd like to see anglers recognize that our own are choosing not to compete. Some have excellent reasons to not compete like parenting and real financial constraints, but many dont budget well, then claim its too expensive, or the weakest is the guy who "doesnt want to fish against Levi and Aaron and Wolsky at potholes". Instead of reinventing themselves to catch (5) 3.5lbers and cash a nice check, they worry about this one guy on this one lake. its ridiculous, and I bet if guys would ditch that attitude and just try some new areas and put in a day or two of good hard exploration and work, they will be there at days end.

In my opinion, tourney directors can tempt non participants, as well they should, but its not their responsibilty to fix the many bad attitudes and financial mismanagement of anglers who own bassboats and tow rigs. People need to get creative financially, put in work, and decide theres value and entertainment in competing.

Permalink Reply by Jake Boomer on August 6, 2015 at 12:01pm

I think Snake makes a couple really good points.  The first being, those who don’t necessary want to fish large events, shouldn’t bad mouth them with phrases like “same top 10 teams always win.”  I know that probably sounds dumb coming from me, but being somewhat analytical, I decided to see if this was true. 

Over the last 2 years, I went through all ABA/NWBass in Washington where a team received a check larger than $2,000.  Some would say this is a decent payback.  The end result was 24 teams who competed in either ABA (East/West) and NWBass since the beginning of 2014 received a single payout greater than $2k.  If I reduced the winnings value down to 1000, the number of teams almost tripled.  That doesn’t count all of the opens,  Nixon’s Marine events, Big Bass Classic etc…..  So this theory that some event circuits/schedules cater to particular anglers would seem untrue.  I think it’s somewhat demeaning to the other 55 teams when we use this “10 team logic”.  It’s been proven time and time again, anybody can win, anytime.  It’s why competitive fishing draws us in. 

Couple years ago, The McMannis brothers won the Coeur d’Alene Classic out of a 17’ Basstracker with a 50HP.  They beat all the standouts who “own’ CDA lake….  (like Palaniuk/Tripp/Kaiser/Lynch…..)  With the above logic, they really shouldn’t have showed up.

As for tournament selection, I agree with Dover.  If you’re not willing to challenge yourself to learn new waters, you have no business fishing against some of these guys on your home lake either.  It’s like saying you’re not going to play baseball against a team that could beat you.  The NW anglers are tough, and most don’t care the name of the lake, as long as it has water and bass.  If you quiz many event winners, they’ll tell you they didn’t think they had a shot in hell, so they just went fishing. 

As for the ROI argument, that can be easily skewed as well.  Nobody in the Northwest is making their money back.  Especially when you factor in boat and pickup payments.  If ROI was a big deal, none of us would have 21ft rigs with 12” graphs and a 250 gas guzzler on the back.  That said, there are a few teams that are actually trying to streamline these costs.  This last year, both Hogue and Brown sold their boats, and combined all income into one tournament rig.  Does that mean they’ll break even….  Not for a long time (even with their 20k win on Moses this year), but it’s a start.

We all realize that there are many choices, and that tournament organizations are doing their best to accommodate everyone’s “needs.”  One thing that would help is angler support, both in lip service and participation.  If you don’t fish cause you can’t financially, don’t use complaints like location or the tournament organization to justify it. 

Everyone’s motivation to fish is different.  I can tell you the chance at winning something like a NWBass or a boat, really drove Jay and I.  When I first started fishing ABA’s I heard a story from an old fishing partner about a well-known regional angler.  The guy was trying to get back to some beaver-hut on the Columbia River at the NWBass Championship.  With his motor at 4k RPM blowing mud and setting off alarms, his partner at the time yelled over the ruckus, “you’re gunna blow that thing up if you don’t lay off!!!!”  His reply was priceless….  “You wanna win a boat, don’t you…..”

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