The Online Source for Washington Fishing Information
Proposed Lead Ban for select Washington Lakes---Guys we had better get involved!!!
To all,
WDFW is proposing a lead ban on select lakes in our state. The proposal reads as follows:
"This proposal would make it unlawful to use lead weights weighing less than one half ounce or lead jigs measuring less than 1 1/2 inches in the following freshwater lakes:
Ferry Lake, Swan Lake and Long Lake (Ferry County), Pierre Lake (Stevens County), Big Meadow Lake, Yocum Lake and South Skookum Lake (Pend Oreillie County), Lost Lake, Blue Lake and Bonaparte Lake (Okanogan County), Calligan Lake, Hancock Lake (King County) and Lake Hozomeen (Whatcom County)."
Explanation:
"Common loons are currently state listed as a sensitive species with significant questions as to the species population status. Washington has both breeding populations and wintering populations of common loons. Ingestion of small lead fishing gear has been identified as on the major causes of loon mortality in WA. Lead toxicosis from fishing tackle was responsible for mortalities in 39% of common loon carcasses recovered in Washington from 1996-2008. Over the past few years, an increasing number of manufactures have begun offering for sale lead-free sinkers and jigs. this is an incremental step in reducing the availability of lead to loons and the proposal is restricted to lake in Washington where we have documented common loon breeding."
Testimony can be sent to:
Lori.Preuss@dfw.wa.gov, by fax to 360 902-2155 (Attention: WDFW Rules Coordinator) or by regular mail to the WDFFW rules Coordinator at 600 Capital Way N, Olympia Wa 98504 Must be received by December 1.
My gut tells me that this proposal, if adopted, could be expanded in the future to encompass a larger geographic area than what is currently proposed. Further I have concerns as to what a "Lead Jig" actually is? Would this include spinner baits, chatter baits, on and on? Also, is the science complete? Lots of questions. At any rate, discuss it among yourselves and feel free to offer constructive guidance to the folks at WDFW.
One other note, the WDFW Fisheries Dept. did not propose this. It was actually proposed by the bio's in the game department.
Also, apologies for my typo's I will try to type slower next post.
WDFW is proposing a lead ban on select lakes in our state. The proposal reads as follows:
"This proposal would make it unlawful to use lead weights weighing less than one half ounce or lead jigs measuring less than 1 1/2 inches in the following freshwater lakes:
Ferry Lake, Swan Lake and Long Lake (Ferry County), Pierre Lake (Stevens County), Big Meadow Lake, Yocum Lake and South Skookum Lake (Pend Oreillie County), Lost Lake, Blue Lake and Bonaparte Lake (Okanogan County), Calligan Lake, Hancock Lake (King County) and Lake Hozomeen (Whatcom County)."
Explanation:
"Common loons are currently state listed as a sensitive species with significant questions as to the species population status. Washington has both breeding populations and wintering populations of common loons. Ingestion of small lead fishing gear has been identified as on the major causes of loon mortality in WA. Lead toxicosis from fishing tackle was responsible for mortalities in 39% of common loon carcasses recovered in Washington from 1996-2008. Over the past few years, an increasing number of manufactures have begun offering for sale lead-free sinkers and jigs. this is an incremental step in reducing the availability of lead to loons and the proposal is restricted to lake in Washington where we have documented common loon breeding."
Testimony can be sent to:
Lori.Preuss@dfw.wa.gov, by fax to 360 902-2155 (Attention: WDFW Rules Coordinator) or by regular mail to the WDFFW rules Coordinator at 600 Capital Way N, Olympia Wa 98504 Must be received by December 1.
My gut tells me that this proposal, if adopted, could be expanded in the future to encompass a larger geographic area than what is currently proposed. Further I have concerns as to what a "Lead Jig" actually is? Would this include spinner baits, chatter baits, on and on? Also, is the science complete? Lots of questions. At any rate, discuss it among yourselves and feel free to offer constructive guidance to the folks at WDFW.
One other note, the WDFW Fisheries Dept. did not propose this. It was actually proposed by the bio's in the game department.
Also, apologies for my typo's I will try to type slower next post.
Views: 176
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tom Edwards on
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quote;
39% of common loon carcasses
Now just what is the acual number of birds? -
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Permalink Reply by Shawn O'Connell on
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Thanks for the info Gary. We need one of our good writers on here to type up a form email that we can all send to this email adress.
I would love for them to make available their research and findings on this. It definitely seems like a scewed percentage to me and I'm also guessing that we will find it is incomplete and probably not representative as a whole.
There is not a lot of time to respond to this. Looks like they will be trying to push this through quietly. -
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Permalink Reply by D.J. LaRoche on
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Thanks for the heads up Gary. I agree that this is only a stepping stone for the environmentalists to ban lead completely.
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Permalink Reply by Aaron Christel on
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Great question. If 7 are dead, and 3 of those are becuase of lead, then this is stupid. If it's 100 plus birds, then maybe it's worth considering.
I have two thoughts here. 1st, it feels like it is targeting us and I want to be defensive about it. I don't fish any of those lakes, but I am sure it's only a matter of time before others fall under the umbrella. 2nd, what was it, about 10-15 years ago that lead shot over water for bird hunting was banned? Well, the sport adapted. We can do the same.
Tom Edwards said:quote;
39% of common loon carcasses
Now just what is the acual number of birds? -
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Permalink Reply by Marc Marcantonio on
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What part of "this is an incremental step in reducing the availability of lead to loons" would cause anyone to doubt their goal is to ban lead like in the New England states?
As a biologist I have studied and written 2 papers about lead toxicity to waterfowl. This doesn't make me an expert, but it does give me some scientific experience to have some knowledge on the subject. I also manufacture lead sinkers, and I tried to manufacture lead substitute sinkers. I am also a fisherman with some experience on how suitable lead substitutes are. Having been on the Inland Fish Policy Advisory Group for 10 years, I saw this come up once before and luckily get dropped. I established the above for the sole purpose of pointing out that I have given this subject a tremendous amount of thought, so my comments come from careful consideration and not biased emotion.
Let me state up front that there are incidents in which lead toxicity is a problem, but I will need to see the WDFW's data and analysis before I believe a problem exists in Washington.
As several mentioned above, we all need to see the study that is referenced, and we need to carefully consider both the data and the conclusions. If you ask for the study, the State has to provide it under the Freedom of Information law.
Remember, loons are migratory. Even if loons have been found dead with lead toxicity, it doesn't mean the lead was ingested in Washington state unless there is evidence of that. Usually this occurs in waterfowl when feeding on mud flats where gravel is unavailable to waterfowl, but where lead shot has fallen during waterfowl hunting activities. Sure, there are some mud flats in Washington, but not many, and not where the ban is being proposed. Use the common sense test here; if an angler loses a 1/4 oz lead sinker on one of these proposed lakes, what is the likelihood of a migratory loon finding and eating it? Our lakes have no shortage of gravel/pebbles, and of a size that a loon would prefer over a 1/4 oz size...and it would be easier to find a needle in a haystack since at least a needle looks different than a piece of hay.
When I first saw this proposed by Pat Michaels(WDFW) roughly six years ago, it went nowhere because the department was sold on the science, and they didn't want to fight the anglers since lead is important to angler success. Tungsten, Bismuth, and Steel were not readily available as alternatives, and were deemed unacceptable by anglers so the WDFW dropped the issue. Apparently WDFW feels they have a better chance now, but lets prove them wrong and voice our objections. Otherwise consider QuickDrops to be gone, and all your other favorite lead fishing tackle because it is all in the sights of those whose REAL objective is to end fishing and hunting. You better enjoy paying more than a dollar per weight for Kanji Tungsten dropshot sinkers, because that is what you will have to use. Yea, I know some of you are rolling your eyes at the "consipiracy theory" but believe me, these people do exist and are manipulating well-intentioned biologists and legislators to pass laws that make us give up on our activities.
This is a slippery slope that needs to be recognized for the first step that it truly is. Why only Loons? Why not all birds including ducks, geese, doves, etc.? It is all about incrementalism. Loons are mystical creatures, that everyone will agree should be protected. So it is an easy sell to the public, and the law gets passed. Then comes the next argument, that if it protects loons to ban lead in their breeding lakes, then it would protect ducks and geese in their habitats too.
Please be sure to educate these "well-intentioned" but ill-informed rule proposers where and how all of these lead substitutes are manufactured. They are sold as environmentally friendly, when the opposite is true. The production of Tungsten sinkers involves extremely intense heat that wastes energy on an enormous scale, and for what? A fishing sinker! Ever wonder why these lead substitutes are made in China? I suppose it makes sense to pollute the air, ground and water in China but not in the USA? Or waste their energy sources? With very little research it is easy to see that Tungsten and other lead substitutes are NOT environmentally friendly. And we know they are not cost effective. Please pass this on to WDFW.
Gary is right, we all need to act to protect our interests. Insist on the science and insist that any new law accomplishes the targeted purpose, and no more.
The proponents of lead bans pull out all the stops, especially the scare tactics. Much of their claims are completely false, so don't be quick to accept them. Lead is a natural element, and very stable. It does not poison anything until specific unusual conditions exist that allow it to be dissolved where it can be toxic. There are still lead water pipes in use by water companies, and these pose no threat unless acidic conditions or electrolysis conditions exist.
In conclusion, please see this as the threat to your lifestyle that it really is. It is a conspiracy aided unwittingly by well-intentioned but foolish individuals whose salaries you pay with your taxes and license fees. Get involved or suffer the consequences.
P.S. I have made my comments known, and will continue to do so, but they fall on deaf ears because my arguments are dismissed since I manufacture lead fishing sinkers. Don't wait, your ox is being gored right now!
ciao,
Marc -
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Permalink Reply by Jake Anderson on
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Wow....great post Marc. Eye opening and enlightening.
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Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on
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I nominate Marc....
Nice post Marc, very enlightening.
Marc Marcantonio said:What part of "this is an incremental step in reducing the availability of lead to loons" would cause anyone to doubt their goal is to ban lead like in the New England states?
As a biologist I have studied and written 2 papers about lead toxicity to waterfowl. This doesn't make me an expert, but it does give me some scientific experience to have some knowledge on the subject. I also manufacture lead sinkers, and I tried to manufacture lead substitute sinkers. I am also a fisherman with some experience on how suitable lead substitutes are. Having been on the Inland Fish Policy Advisory Group for 10 years, I saw this come up once before and luckily get dropped. I established the above for the sole purpose of pointing out that I have given this subject a tremendous amount of thought, so my comments come from careful consideration and not biased emotion.
Let me state up front that there are incidents in which lead toxicity is a problem, but I will need to see the WDFW's data and analysis before I believe a problem exists in Washington.
As several mentioned above, we all need to see the study that is referenced, and we need to carefully consider both the data and the conclusions. If you ask for the study, the State has to provide it under the Freedom of Information law.
Remember, loons are migratory. Even if loons have been found dead with lead toxicity, it doesn't mean the lead was ingested in Washington state unless there is evidence of that. Usually this occurs in waterfowl when feeding on mud flats where gravel is unavailable to waterfowl, but where lead shot has fallen during waterfowl hunting activities. Sure, there are some mud flats in Washington, but not many, and not where the ban is being proposed. Use the common sense test here; if an angler loses a 1/4 oz lead sinker on one of these proposed lakes, what is the likelihood of a migratory loon finding and eating it? Our lakes have no shortage of gravel/pebbles, and of a size that a loon would prefer over a 1/4 oz size...and it would be easier to find a needle in a haystack since at least a needle looks different than a piece of hay.
When I first saw this proposed by Pat Michaels(WDFW) roughly six years ago, it went nowhere because the department was sold on the science, and they didn't want to fight the anglers since lead is important to angler success. Tungsten, Bismuth, and Steel were not readily available as alternatives, and were deemed unacceptable by anglers so the WDFW dropped the issue. Apparently WDFW feels they have a better chance now, but lets prove them wrong and voice our objections. Otherwise consider QuickDrops to be gone, and all your other favorite lead fishing tackle because it is all in the sights of those whose REAL objective is to end fishing and hunting. You better enjoy paying more than a dollar per weight for Kanji Tungsten dropshot sinkers, because that is what you will have to use. Yea, I know some of you are rolling your eyes at the "consipiracy theory" but believe me, these people do exist and are manipulating well-intentioned biologists and legislators to pass laws that make us give up on our activities.
This is a slippery slope that needs to be recognized for the first step that it truly is. Why only Loons? Why not all birds including ducks, geese, doves, etc.? It is all about incrementalism. Loons are mystical creatures, that everyone will agree should be protected. So it is an easy sell to the public, and the law gets passed. Then comes the next argument, that if it protects loons to ban lead in their breeding lakes, then it would protect ducks and geese in their habitats too.
Please be sure to educate these "well-intentioned" but ill-informed rule proposers where and how all of these lead substitutes are manufactured. They are sold as environmentally friendly, when the opposite is true. The production of Tungsten sinkers involves extremely intense heat that wastes energy on an enormous scale, and for what? A fishing sinker! Ever wonder why these lead substitutes are made in China? I suppose it makes sense to pollute the air, ground and water in China but not in the USA? Or waste their energy sources? With very little research it is easy to see that Tungsten and other lead substitutes are NOT environmentally friendly. And we know they are not cost effective. Please pass this on to WDFW.
Gary is right, we all need to act to protect our interests. Insist on the science and insist that any new law accomplishes the targeted purpose, and no more.
The proponents of lead bans pull out all the stops, especially the scare tactics. Much of their claims are completely false, so don't be quick to accept them. Lead is a natural element, and very stable. It does not poison anything until specific unusual conditions exist that allow it to be dissolved where it can be toxic. There are still lead water pipes in use by water companies, and these pose no threat unless acidic conditions or electrolysis conditions exist.
In conclusion, please see this as the threat to your lifestyle that it really is. It is a conspiracy aided unwittingly by well-intentioned but foolish individuals whose salaries you pay with your taxes and license fees. Get involved or suffer the consequences.
P.S. I have made my comments known, and will continue to do so, but they fall on deaf ears because my arguments are dismissed since I manufacture lead fishing sinkers. Don't wait, your ox is being gored right now!
ciao,
Marc -
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Jordan, I wish I could have more of an impact on this situation. I helped get it shelved several years ago, but when I bring up the subject now WDFW ignores my experience as an angler, my training and experience as a fisheries biologist with an additional degree in ecology, and they point to the fact that I manufacture QuickDrops and therefore I am biased and not to be trusted.
You should see the information that is being used to justify this ban; junk science and emotional based misinformation that they trust won't be questioned by reasonable people. They use words like "this loon is suspected to have succumbed to lead toxicosis but the body was dragged off by predators so an autopsy could not be performed". They say things like half of all deaths in Washington are the result of lead toxicosis, but then you realize when reading the information that they are talking about half of the bodies they recovered (4 in one "study" they cite); ask exactly what the population of loons are in the State of Washington, and how many die of other causes like old age, habitat loss, disease, predation, etc. These aren't included when they cite "half of the deaths are from lead toxicosis". This is the misinformation we have to challenge to put the problem in proper perspective.
Ask for the study, then question the data and analysis. Ask how many loons are in Washington (the real loons are the people who push this junk), and ask how many are confirmed dead from lead toxicosis.
Google studies on this and you will see they come from the Audubon folks, and their goal is a complete ban on all lead fishing equipment. They say in some of these studies that lead alternatives will only cost an angler an average of $5 more per year!!! How is that for credible infomation. A QuickDrop cost $0.30 for one, a Kanji Tunsten teardrop costs $1.30 for one!
Or simply send your comments and concerns to the person Gary identified in his message, and to your legislators and the fisheries commission. Even if you only say you are not in favor of the ban, you will have helped.
ciao,
Marc
Jordan Doucet said:I nominate Marc....
Nice post Marc, very enlightening.
Marc Marcantonio said:What part of "this is an incremental step in reducing the availability of lead to loons" would cause anyone to doubt their goal is to ban lead like in the New England states?
As a biologist I have studied and written 2 papers about lead toxicity to waterfowl. This doesn't make me an expert, but it does give me some scientific experience to have some knowledge on the subject. I also manufacture lead sinkers, and I tried to manufacture lead substitute sinkers. I am also a fisherman with some experience on how suitable lead substitutes are. Having been on the Inland Fish Policy Advisory Group for 10 years, I saw this come up once before and luckily get dropped. I established the above for the sole purpose of pointing out that I have given this subject a tremendous amount of thought, so my comments come from careful consideration and not biased emotion.
Let me state up front that there are incidents in which lead toxicity is a problem, but I will need to see the WDFW's data and analysis before I believe a problem exists in Washington.
As several mentioned above, we all need to see the study that is referenced, and we need to carefully consider both the data and the conclusions. If you ask for the study, the State has to provide it under the Freedom of Information law.
Remember, loons are migratory. Even if loons have been found dead with lead toxicity, it doesn't mean the lead was ingested in Washington state unless there is evidence of that. Usually this occurs in waterfowl when feeding on mud flats where gravel is unavailable to waterfowl, but where lead shot has fallen during waterfowl hunting activities. Sure, there are some mud flats in Washington, but not many, and not where the ban is being proposed. Use the common sense test here; if an angler loses a 1/4 oz lead sinker on one of these proposed lakes, what is the likelihood of a migratory loon finding and eating it? Our lakes have no shortage of gravel/pebbles, and of a size that a loon would prefer over a 1/4 oz size...and it would be easier to find a needle in a haystack since at least a needle looks different than a piece of hay.
When I first saw this proposed by Pat Michaels(WDFW) roughly six years ago, it went nowhere because the department was sold on the science, and they didn't want to fight the anglers since lead is important to angler success. Tungsten, Bismuth, and Steel were not readily available as alternatives, and were deemed unacceptable by anglers so the WDFW dropped the issue. Apparently WDFW feels they have a better chance now, but lets prove them wrong and voice our objections. Otherwise consider QuickDrops to be gone, and all your other favorite lead fishing tackle because it is all in the sights of those whose REAL objective is to end fishing and hunting. You better enjoy paying more than a dollar per weight for Kanji Tungsten dropshot sinkers, because that is what you will have to use. Yea, I know some of you are rolling your eyes at the "consipiracy theory" but believe me, these people do exist and are manipulating well-intentioned biologists and legislators to pass laws that make us give up on our activities.
This is a slippery slope that needs to be recognized for the first step that it truly is. Why only Loons? Why not all birds including ducks, geese, doves, etc.? It is all about incrementalism. Loons are mystical creatures, that everyone will agree should be protected. So it is an easy sell to the public, and the law gets passed. Then comes the next argument, that if it protects loons to ban lead in their breeding lakes, then it would protect ducks and geese in their habitats too.
Please be sure to educate these "well-intentioned" but ill-informed rule proposers where and how all of these lead substitutes are manufactured. They are sold as environmentally friendly, when the opposite is true. The production of Tungsten sinkers involves extremely intense heat that wastes energy on an enormous scale, and for what? A fishing sinker! Ever wonder why these lead substitutes are made in China? I suppose it makes sense to pollute the air, ground and water in China but not in the USA? Or waste their energy sources? With very little research it is easy to see that Tungsten and other lead substitutes are NOT environmentally friendly. And we know they are not cost effective. Please pass this on to WDFW.
Gary is right, we all need to act to protect our interests. Insist on the science and insist that any new law accomplishes the targeted purpose, and no more.
The proponents of lead bans pull out all the stops, especially the scare tactics. Much of their claims are completely false, so don't be quick to accept them. Lead is a natural element, and very stable. It does not poison anything until specific unusual conditions exist that allow it to be dissolved where it can be toxic. There are still lead water pipes in use by water companies, and these pose no threat unless acidic conditions or electrolysis conditions exist.
In conclusion, please see this as the threat to your lifestyle that it really is. It is a conspiracy aided unwittingly by well-intentioned but foolish individuals whose salaries you pay with your taxes and license fees. Get involved or suffer the consequences.
P.S. I have made my comments known, and will continue to do so, but they fall on deaf ears because my arguments are dismissed since I manufacture lead fishing sinkers. Don't wait, your ox is being gored right now!
ciao,
Marc -
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Awesome, will do Marc. Thanks again for your insight!
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Permalink Reply by islandbass on
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I won't stand for that, but will writing letters to our two Senators really help? What can all of us do as a group to effectively challenge this? What other recourse is there Joe citizen?
Marc,
I commend you for your past efforts. Thank you. -
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Permalink Reply by Larry Austin on
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Thanks Marc
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