The Rumored News is that...

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Permalink Reply by Mark Maderos on March 3, 2013 at 9:31am

Now this is great thinking!!!!!  Outside the box yet using the resources at hand to send our message loud and clear.  I have a co worker who is indian and can look into getting him as my tourney partner for our salmon derby.

Mark
 
William McMurry said:

maybe we can get the indians in on it too. tourneys with nets everywhere! who needs a pole?

Permalink Reply by Marc Marcantonio on March 3, 2013 at 5:23pm

I know most of you guys think I am a bass fisherman, which I am, but frankly I consider myself just as much a saltwater guy, salmon and steelhead fisherman, trout fisherman, walleye fisherman, etc.  If it swims, I fish for it and want to catch it!

 

For many years I have tried to bring anglers from all groups together in a common cause to "increase recreational sportfishing opportunity."  I didn't grow up in Washington, but have travelled to every state in the USA, literally.  Of everywhere I have been, I have never seen anglers so divided by fish species as I have in Washington.  Frankly it really galls me when I attend a PSA meeting, and constantly get chided for liking bass.  Many of the bass guys are just as bad, and tease about slimers.  Have you ever talked to a trout fly fishing club member?  Talk about elitists!

 

Now I enjoy some banter, but the reason this is more than banter is that ever since the Judge Bolt decision, this state has never been able to get anglers to agree on anything!  It is the fact that we are divided that we never have the clout or money we should easily have to combat our enemies.  When the tree-huggers spend dollars on attorneys to attack an angling group, they purposefully isolate one group against another, and ultimately gain their objective by getting the salmon guys to fight against the bass guys, and vice versa.  The WDFW and Commission then see anglers not even agreeing, and consequently they take away our fishing opportunities.

 

So then why am I suggesting having a tournament for salmon on the Columbia?  Do what I did, and read the input provided by the salmon anglers in their testimony why bass should be eliminated from the Columbia.  If their words don't raise the hair on the back of your neck, then nothing will. These comments are obnoxious, uninformed, divisive, and clearly indicate the real problem that needs to be addressed if we are ever going to have unity and be effective in fending off our enemies.

 

A legal salmon tournament supported by a ton of bassboats will drive home the point that people are going to fish for whatever they can.  If salmon anglers continue to attack bass and walleye anglers and their quarry, then they will have to share their salmon, ramps, and water with a lot more anglers than they do now.  How will this recover salmon stocks?  I don't imagine it will take long for them to change their view.

 

I wish I believed that boycotting licenses would send the message, but I honestly do not think so.  Of course every individual should do what they feel in their heart is the right thing to do, but I am not giving up fishing because that is the ultimate objective of what our enemies want.

 

This predation issue is not only bogus, but is setting up the anti's for much bigger accomplishments; such as a total ban on fishing.  I know that sounds extreme to many, but follow this through.  Our enemies are using the Endangered Species Act to justify this action on bass in the Columbia.  Under the ESA, it is illegal for "any take" of an endangered species, which some of our salmon stocks fall under.  So any "take" of salmon by bass, walleye and catfish is a problem that the WDFW claims it has to respond to and take action.

 

So where does this stop?  Barbed hooks are a problem then, treble hooks are a problem then, catch and keep is a problem, and even catch and release is a problem.  Just fishing for salmon can be construed as hurting spawning opportunities, etc.  You make a case for one situation, and you are then making a case for all.  Especially when you get salmon guys to ignore the fact that bass eat more pikeminnows than the do salmonids, and consequently are helpful to salmon populations rather than a detriment.  Northern Pikeminnows eat far more salmonids than bass do.

 

Reasoning with many salmon anglers, and even our fisheries biologists and commissioners, has had limited success.  We are losing ground.  We must do a better job of finding a way to get everyone's attention; to get them to wake-up and realize that when they gore our ox, and we are gone, who will be there to help them when it is their ox getting gored? 

 

Most of the equipment the salmon anglers use are the result of competitive bass fishing; many of the manufacturer's of salmon tackle cannot survive our economic times without revenue from bass tackle sales.  Bass anglers spend far more money on boats and tackle, which provides a 10% tax on every sale to the Sports Fishing Restoration Act taxes paid by manufacturers like myself to the Federal Government.  This money is distributed back to each state, proportioned by license sales.  So our money is funding the biologists that our state employs.  Salmon and steelhead and trout anglers contribute also, but not nearly as much as bass anglers nationwide! 

 

There is a reason that bass are the number one, most popular, game fish in North America.  We need to do a much better job of educating all the anglers in Washington State about this, and get them to realize they need to support us if they have any chance of hoping to continue to fish into the future.

 

We also need to educate our Commissioners, and biologists, to expand their comprehension and realize that they are killing their golden goose when they limit bass fishing opportunity.  WDFW is embarassing themselves as professionals by implementing this removal of limits and size to warmwater species on the Columbia based on predation, when they haven't done the limiting factors analysis to document a problem exists, and that this action will improve the situation.  Instead, they made a political move at our expense, and they used salmon, steelhead, and trout anglers to support and justify their move. 

 

There are a lot of young biologists that do great things for WDFW, but eventually leave when they realize they can't make a difference.  The agency ultimately cares more about being risk adverse, and does what it feels it needs to do to stay out of court from the tribes and environmentalists.  This is the losing battle we are fighting, and to fix it we need to take the fight to the State and to the Environmentalists and others who try to restrict our opportunities.  We need to educate our legislators to pass laws that protect our opportunities, and we need to fight in the courst to uphold these laws.

 

I wish I was wrong about all of this, but I don't think so. 

 

I think one of our State level bass tournament organizations should organize a salmon tournament, well planned and timed during the peak of a run on the Columbia, and we should share a message that if bass are gone from this state, we will be fishing for salmon. 

 

Then we could do the same thing in several key areas on opening day of trout season.  And we should invite the news to film the crowds and comments by the salmon and trout anglers.  And we should tell these anglers when they get mad at us that if they would instead support warmwater angling instead of attacking it, we could be spread out across many waters in the state and not be crowding their waters and fish.

Permalink Reply by William McMurry on March 3, 2013 at 8:50pm

Very good.

Permalink Reply by Clark Hess on March 3, 2013 at 9:34pm

Really great stuff here. your insight and well thought out responses are extremely helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write all this out and help educate everybody. The sport needs more people like you.

Permalink Reply by Marc Marcantonio on March 4, 2013 at 4:34pm

Here you go (don't recommend reading this prior to trying to go to sleep):

 

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/regulations/rule_proposals/comments/prop...

 

 

Permalink Reply by William McMurry on March 4, 2013 at 8:20pm

WOW!!!! Its not bedtime yet. But im really thinking that if they change the slots and make no limits. Then we really need to put a Stop to Salmon/steelhead fishing altogether this season. After all, they are "Endangerd" so why are we Harvesting them? it blows my mind.....  I enjoy all that swim, but if some of those comments, from some of those folks, is how they think and act towards others of who, enjoy the same sport fishing such as everyone else does, I, me, you, them. then we, all of us, fisherman are in trouble.

 

  Its that ripple effect. Once one domino falls, it hits another and another and so on.......

Permalink Reply by David Parnicky on March 6, 2013 at 12:13am

  Hmm..Maybe some Tiger Musky in the Columbia to munch up some of the squawfish?  Even though squawfish eat way more smolt than bass and walleye combined, I would still be interested to see how many juvenile salmon would actually make it to the ocean and back to spawn without bass, walleye and even squawfish.  I bet the numbers would be nearly identical.  The dams are very important to our area and I would be pissed if they ever tried to do away with them but I am using them as an example simply to show how stupid blaming bass and walleye is when you are talking about a waterway with multiple dams the fish have to navigate through, warmer and slower water because of them, not to mention all the predators they have to deal with once they get to the ocean.  The list of threats to salmon on the Columbia goes on and on and I really don't think the predatory fish (especially bass and walleye) in the river enjoying a few tasty smolt are doing anything to the numbers of adult salmon that actually make it back to spawn.

  I have some more info to relay via Bob's (our guy in Borderline that talks to the state about issues we are concerned about) talk with Chris from the WDFW.  It sounded like in regards to lifting the regs on bass and walleye in the Columbia, Chris told Bob that he agreed that squawfish are a much bigger threat to the salmon than bass and walleye but the department was under fire to make some new regulation for the river that would save some extra salmon and this was the only thing that they could come up with.  I know that sounds completely ridiculous but that was their reasoning.  He claims that he realizes we are taking a big hit from this and says that because of that we will be the next ones to get to have a say in something that we want done.  I know this doesn't solve the issue and that not many will believe they will let us have a say in anything but I think we should hold them to that.  Maybe it can be used to at least make it so no bass over 17" can be harvested on the Columbia and that no largemouth can be harvested or something along those lines.  I just wanted to relay what the state told Bob so that everyone could know.  Bob said he might be able to talk this guy from the WDFW to come out and talk to a large group of bass anglers at a big event (jamboree, banquet, big tournament, etc.) about the bass regs on the Columbia issue if we wanted. 

   P.S.  Thanks Marc and Dana for all that you do! We would be in much bigger trouble than we are without you!

Permalink Reply by Jake Anderson on March 6, 2013 at 9:50am

I think Salmon and Steelhead anglers should consider looking at Bass and Walleye much like Assault weapons relation to the 2nd amendment.  

just like assault weapons, bass look big and bad, but the reality is that they aren't a factor in the big picture, and instead of dealing with the real issue, we want to "ban them".   

STS anglers need to realize that when Bass and Walleye anglers get attacked and bled out, the next on the chopping block is salmon anglers.  

I'm not a biologist, but I'd venture to guess most smolt that are eaten by bass are weak, sick, dying, or already dead.  Its just like fishing a fluke.  If you just burn the thing in out in the middle of the river during the spring, you would fish for days, weeks or years without getting bit. You probably wouldn't hook a fish until American Shad start migrating...which of course are non native..., yet if you pause it, jerk, it, work it near ambush points, and sure...fish on.  

Then of course is this ideology by the STS guys that Pikeminnow are "native."  What they don't seem to grasp is that dams aren't native.  The current flows aren't native.  The water temperatures aren't native, so neither are the populations of pikeminnow.  So now we have tax payers that are going to fund NPM programs when we could have bass doing it for free. 

As an sts angler, I don't know how you could support taking of bass when it very well may result in the decline of salmon population, and is one more step away from their angling rights be infringed upon.

Beware the scary looking bass....  Just like you should beware the scary looking Ar-15.   

Permalink Reply by Marc Marcantonio on March 6, 2013 at 12:37pm

Very well put!

Permalink Reply by Josh Potter on March 6, 2013 at 1:47pm

It's too bad we are getting fractured into combating user groups. The divide and conquer strategy is very effective. The state did this many years ago with big game hunting by creating the "choose your weapon" system. The black powder guys get pitted against the archery guys and the modern firearm guys battle both groups continuously. The only thing that helps bring the hunting groups back together somewhat is that when it comes to big game, we are all after the same quarry. I believe that when push comes to shove the groups have a tendancy to get along to some degree because we all love the same animals. An example of that would be 99% of hunter's, regardless of hunting method, hate wolves. Archers, front stuffers and gun geeks all agree wolves are bad for big game populations...period.

 

The fishing deal is a little different because there are groups of fishermen who don't give a rats ass about certain species or the right to their existance and that is scary to me. Hunters also largely share the same passion for the second ammendment and that brings them back together when times are tough. There are a lot of liberal fishermen out there and that is terrifying because asside from owning some of the same equipment, we have completely different values.

Permalink Reply by P.J. Koshi on March 6, 2013 at 6:21pm

I am proud to say I was a salmon fisherman first and I am still a passionate and avid salmon angler when the time comes and that run moves in!  The sad thing is it seems that the state biologists or decision makers are not too sharp.  What they need to realize is there is a larger picture and the bass and walleye are small factors in the large scheme of things that are causing salmon runs to diminish.  I would never pit myself in a battle against salmon anglers or bass anglers, and it really never should come to that.  My comment about joining the Salmon tournament was humor, and I hope it really does not come to that.

Permalink Reply by Marc Marcantonio on March 6, 2013 at 6:36pm

As I made clear in my previous posts, I have dedicated a large portion of my life to restoring salmon and steelhead; never because it was a job (the pay could not support a family), but because I cared. 

The point of having a tournament is not to poke a stick in the eye of salmon fishermen (I am one of them); but rather to educate them in a way that leaves an impression of what is to come of salmon fishing in this state if they don't wake up. 

 

If you make a case that predation (a totally natural event that will occur regardless if from bass, walleye, northern pikeminnows, terns, etc.) must be stopped due to ESA listings, then you are making a case to eliminate fishing completely.  If salmon anglers continue to harp about removing bass and use the predation issue to make their case, then they are digging their own grave also because their same argument will be used by the attorneys for the tribes, CELP, the Audubon Society, and many other groups.

 

Not holding a tournament, or develop other ways to get the message out, could be the end of sportfishing and fishing for subsistence for all. 

 

Sometimes being politcally correct is being ignorant to the tactics of your enemies, and plays into their hand. 

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