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Spots, Pre-Fishing, and Educating Fish
There has been some pretty interesting, sometimes heated debates in the Tournament section of this website, and I feel that since the post recently has kind of winded down a little, I'd like to bring to attention an issue that kept repeating itself in that long discussion, but was set to the side because it would have gotten the thread off track.
So I'd like to hear from you guys how you feel about spots, pre-fishing, and educating fish. It seems like there's some wildly varying opinions on these subjects, and I wonder if there's any consensus.
-Spots: Do you believe the top guys have secret spots? If they don't, then why is secrecy so profound when everyone is basically fishing the same stuff? Is there some sort of "upper class" feeling that guys have that have been around for a while, where they feel like the new guys need to earn their keep with blood, sweat, and tears in order to learn the spots everyone fishes? If there isn't, then why is Washington State so against Pro-Am tournaments (and thus giving up their "spots")? Why are you so secretive with your spots? Do you honestly feel like no one knows your spot?
-Pre-Fishing: Do you believe fishing for your fish (on your spots) a week prior can significantly educate your fish to the point where it ruins your chances the next weekend? What are your methods for pre-fishing, particularly pre-fishing that is a week in advance? How often do you think fish re-locate or totally change after a week?
Everyone's opinion matters on the above questions, and I feel we're going to see a lot of disagreement, so hopefully it's interesting.
Here my analysis on the two subjects:
-Spots: I do not believe, for the most part, that the top guys have secret spots. I have fished too long and I see oftentimes where guys are fishing, and it's funny but we're all fishing the same stuff. With that, I do believe the top guys are very good at finding which spot is on during pre-fish, and even better at adjusting a week later at the tournament. I believe secrecy is a must during pre-fish, because if you find fish, obviously you don't want everyone knowing. But the spot itself, guys seem to think it's secret, but 99% of the time it isn't. Now, I'm not saying NEVER. I do think guys do, albeit rarely, find a hidden jewel. In general, though, I think the top guys just fish the same spots as everyone else, they just fish differently, and their timing and decisions are impeccable.
Take, for example, Don Hogue. Normally I would question a guy's manhood if he came to a championship tournament with one rod on the deck, and it was a 6" PINK fluke. :) However, when he uses that pink fluke to win boats, and almost everyone knows exactly where he fishes, that's pretty amazing. I have tried to duplicate what Don Hogue does and I cannot. I know exactly where he fishes and what he uses, and I've tried understand what he is doing that's so special, but I gave up....It was a good moment of learning for me, to discover that it's best that we each fish to our own strengths, and that's where we do best. The point is Don Hogue fishes the same spots as most but he is a better fisherman than most guys. Period.
-Pre-Fishing: I am of the opinion that it's probably not a great thing to hammer your water during pre-fish, even if it's a week away. However, I am definitely not convinced it's a bad thing, either, especially if you're left with no option (such as fishing a tournament on that same body of water during pre-fish). There's scientific proof that fish travel great distances to go "home." Also, there's scientific proof fish are caught multiple times. And, more often than not, at least in my experience, fish DRASTICALLY change during a week-long period......On that note, if the pre-fishing was no-off limits, my pre-fishing strategy would be dramatically different....But a week....Really? I again provide the example of the lakes, tons of tournaments, and thousands of bass fisherman in Alabama who are pounding every square inch of water every week. In the end, most of the time the best fisherman wins, and also most of the time it's not because he found a secret spot a week ago during pre-fish. It's because he's a better fisherman, period.
On the pro and elite levels, I think the rules change, and my opinions would vary slightly on this subject of pre-fishing and spots. The reason is because in the Elites, everyone competing is on a similar skill level, and different factors come into play as to why one guy wins and the other doesn't.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Hanes on
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Don,
If you ever get a dog and want to try bird hunting, I can probably lead you to some good hunting...I would say let's go hunting next year, but honestly I am not sure ole' Red will be around, and if he is, he will probably walk around in switch grass like a senile old guy who has no clue what's going on. Red is funny these days.
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Permalink Reply by Ronald Hobbs, Jr. on
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Yes that's exactly what I am saying! It's a possible starting point for next week's puzzle. Fish swim. To many variables. Fish change and move constantly. Going into a tournament with preconceived notions is a great way to bomb. Tournament day will never go like your prefish day, and no one who has "won" prefish wins the tournament.
Ben Hanes said:Jake/Hobbs,
So are you both saying that catching fish off of a spot/area 1 week before a tournament doesn't really have an effect on anything (in regards to tournament performance the next week), and that it's probably more mental than anything else?
Furthermore, are you basically saying that pre-fishing one week before the actual tournament, for the most part, is meaningless beyond getting general ideas and a possible starting point?
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What you said about birds alot of times goes with fish.....food and cover and not getting bothered by hunting/fishing pressure. Not more dynamic you just can't see it because it's under the water.
Ben Hanes said:LOL!!!!
I think bird hunting is much less dynamic than fishing, because 1/4 of the work is accomplished through a good dog, mostly accomplished through training and experience, not genetics. The other 1/4 is bird knowledge/scouting, 1/4 shooting ability, and probably 1/4 physical fitness and determination.
Birds spend most of their lives in the same area, as do bass, but I don't really "look" for birds, just cover and food. My dog finds birds. You could say electronics is your "dog," but a dog is much more concrete and easy to read than electronics, and more reliable. Furthermore, it's difficult sometimes to use electronics when locating fish in shallow water, say 1-10 feet, you're more just locating structure at those depths....When I sight fish, that's a form of hunting I suppose.....
I just think fish are so much more dynamic than pheasants or quail. With birds, I just go find corn, Russian olive trees, and cover like tall grass or tules, and BAM. Yes, if I get permission to hunt private land it helps a lot because spots in hunting are much more fickle to pressure than fishing, in my opinion anyway.
There's definite parallels, for sure. Fishing is so much more dynamic, though.
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Permalink Reply by Dana Steiner on
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Mr. Hobbs,
You are years beyond your age. I look forward to another year of putting you and Wolsky on my hit list to beat. Thanks to both of you for creating a challenge for myself and Steve. We have cussed you both over dinner, we have called both of you even worse over cocktails. RESPECT.
Ronald Hobbs, Jr. said:Yes that's exactly what I am saying! It's a possible starting point for next week's puzzle. Fish swim. To many variables. Fish change and move constantly. Going into a tournament with preconceived notions is a great way to bomb. Tournament day will never go like your prefish day, and no one who has "won" prefish wins the tournament.
Ben Hanes said:Jake/Hobbs,
So are you both saying that catching fish off of a spot/area 1 week before a tournament doesn't really have an effect on anything (in regards to tournament performance the next week), and that it's probably more mental than anything else?
Furthermore, are you basically saying that pre-fishing one week before the actual tournament, for the most part, is meaningless beyond getting general ideas and a possible starting point?
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Permalink Reply by Chris Lambert on
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned here are the short little patterns or what I call "windows" that happen DURING a tournament day. It's nothing you can really practice for but something you can prepare yourself for to try and recognize when it happens.
I know that I've been out of the "bigger game" for a while but I do put a lot of effort in the few tournaments I do fish. A lot of my focus is where the fish are on that specific day. Or even narrower in that where they are for that short window of time within the day.
You hear a lot of anglers talk about "I caught them on that spot last year, can't believe they're not on it again". History fishing rarely works in my opinion. I'd choose a day or two of practice the day before an event every time over a graph full of old waypoints....hopefully that makes sense. -
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