Disgusting: Lifting bass limits on the Columbia River!!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ryan Higgins on March 15, 2016 at 7:09pm

Neither do I, but lots of uninformed Salmon and Steelheaders do.



Dana Steiner said:

Well, I for one don't "FEELGOOD" about this rule change.

Ryan Higgins said:

You, I, everyone here, and WDFW knows we will never remove the Bass from the system at this stage.  The problem is this is a feelgood rule change and at least amending it to include a slot restriction would mitigate damage to the resource.

Permalink Reply by Dana Steiner on March 15, 2016 at 7:12pm

I'm still looking forward to your opinion.

Dana Steiner said:

Mr. Nelson,

Welcome to the site. As a respected and knowledgeable sportsman in our state, with many years of experience your opinions would be appreciated. You have had quite a career in the salmon and steelhead industry. You represent the group that we would like to hear from. I know that you are no stranger to this subject and I also know of your contributions to support our states salmon fishery.

Tom Nelson said:

Hey gang,

I've been lurking a bit and have not posted but I need to ask y'all...

In the face of ESA listed salmonid stocks and with the Columbia being one of the largest producers of salmon, is it a big surprise that this watershed would be managed by WDFW for native salmonid production?

Flame away if you must but I'm honestly wondering what this board's thoughts are on this issue.

Thanks!

Permalink Reply by Dana Steiner on March 15, 2016 at 7:17pm

Now we are getting somewhere! I think I might have read somewhere that Steelhead will eat Salmon eggs, is this not predation of an ESA listed species? Does this mean we should lift all regulations on Steelhead? 

Ryan Higgins said:

Neither do I, but lots of uninformed Salmon and Steelheaders do.



Dana Steiner said:

Well, I for one don't "FEELGOOD" about this rule change.

Ryan Higgins said:

You, I, everyone here, and WDFW knows we will never remove the Bass from the system at this stage.  The problem is this is a feelgood rule change and at least amending it to include a slot restriction would mitigate damage to the resource.

Permalink Reply by Ryan Higgins on March 15, 2016 at 7:59pm

They do, but they are not nest raiders like a Bluegill.  They sit below spawning Salmon and collect the eggs that escape the redd, the ones that wouldn't make it anyway.  Steelhead, Whitefish, river run Trout, and Bulltrout all do this.  What separates them from Bass though is they are native fish, IE natural predators.  Bull Trout are also piscivorous and do consume Salmon and Steelhead Smolt, but their numbers are far less than the Bass and again, native predator.  Furthermore Steelhead and Bull Trout themselves are ESA listed due to the same reasons Salmon are.

I see where you're going, but it's a null argument. Natural species rights trump invasive species rights.

Dana Steiner said:

Now we are getting somewhere! I think I might have read somewhere that Steelhead will eat Salmon eggs, is this not predation of an ESA listed species? Does this mean we should lift all regulations on Steelhead? 

Ryan Higgins said:

Neither do I, but lots of uninformed Salmon and Steelheaders do.



Dana Steiner said:

Well, I for one don't "FEELGOOD" about this rule change.

Ryan Higgins said:

You, I, everyone here, and WDFW knows we will never remove the Bass from the system at this stage.  The problem is this is a feelgood rule change and at least amending it to include a slot restriction would mitigate damage to the resource.

Permalink Reply by Jon Sessler on March 15, 2016 at 8:20pm

Jeff,

You are right on the money. To take it a step further, the "rights" groups know this and are pushing the divide and conquer agenda. Furthermore, they have the ability to garner funds from the users through the state via grants and subsidies and then they turn around and use the money we spent on licenses, fees, discovery passes etc. and they then use our own money against us.

A few years ago, I asked that the tournament directors, not disqualify anyone over lack of a fishing license. Just a small act of civil disobedience, to try and send a message.

Jeff McBroom said:

Ryan,

First I'd like to say that it doesn't matter if it's hunting or fishing-- anytime the state succeeds in pitting sportsmen against each other (e.g., fly fishermen vs. lure fishermen,  warm water vs. salmon/steelhead,  bow hunters vs. muzzle loaders vs. Modern firearm, baiting bears vs. not baiting, ect.) the only winner ends up being the state and whatever agenda they are pushing! There might be day in the near future that the salmon fishermen wished us warm water species fishermen had their backs --and I'll tell you what--we won't. 

Permalink Reply by Ryan Higgins on March 15, 2016 at 8:27pm

Agreed.  The best offense here is an informed one whos goal is not to win but to work together to appease both groups.  Again this is why I wrote into WDFW before this rule took effect to promote a slot limit even with liberal bag limits to protect the larger trophy fish who are proven by studies to not be an impact on Smolts while allowing the smaller shakers to be harvested to help control the amount of Smolts eaten since they are the size associated with primary smolt consumption.  It's a win for warmwater and Salmon anglers and is a rule based on the science.  Why do studies only to ignore the findings?

Jeff McBroom said:

Ryan,

First I'd like to say that it doesn't matter if it's hunting or fishing-- anytime the state succeeds in pitting sportsmen against each other (e.g., fly fishermen vs. lure fishermen,  warm water vs. salmon/steelhead,  bow hunters vs. muzzle loaders vs. Modern firearm, baiting bears vs. not baiting, ect.) the only winner ends up being the state and whatever agenda they are pushing! There might be day in the near future that the salmon fishermen wished us warm water species fishermen had their backs --and I'll tell you what--we won't. 

Permalink Reply by Jake Anderson on March 15, 2016 at 8:28pm

I'm kinda tired of the word "native". Majority of opinions here are from non natives. The river is as unatural as humans could possibly make it including its tributaries. The fish themselves are genetic mismatches from their native cousins regardless of what their adipose says about it.

If climate change continues, were going to be throwing steel leader buzz frogs over mid-river cheese for giant pike.

Permalink Reply by Ryan Higgins on March 15, 2016 at 9:03pm

Jeff,

I am an open advocate against hatchery supplementation.  They are there solely to appease the meat fishers in this state and allow an open season on rivers that would otherwise be closed.  They have been shown by studies out of Oregon to have some detrimental effects on recovering wild fish and there is speculation about other impacts that could be taking place.  Once the return quota is reached the rest of the fish are there for the sportsman.  Not only do the hatchery fish compete with wild fish, but the opening of these rivers creates incidental catches of the ESA listed wild fish which can cause mortality.  The only positive is the nutrients the carcasses return to the system.  It is the lifeblood of the PNW and with depleted runs there are less nutrients to go back into the environment.

Not all Salmon and Steelhead guys are for hatcheries.  The majority of the Fly and Spey community is against them.  Again the state has pitted Fly vs Gear fisherman against each other in an ongoing battle with private organizations who are attempting to eliminate hatchery plants.  I love to fly and spey fish for Steelhead and occasionally Salmon.  When the waters are frozen and the Bass arent biting I become a Steelhead nut.  It's tough to toe the line, but it is possible.

Jeff McBroom said:

Ryan,

1 more comment/item, and this isn't directed at you more a question for you. How much compassion are we supposed to have for the salmon guys (sportsman, commercial, natives, even the f-ing seals/sea lions) when I  just got done reading a 2012 State Report discussing how to manage all of the excess "hatchery" salmon that are making it back upstream every year?? Literally there are too many making it back every year. I'm pretty sure the sportsmen,  commercial guys, natives or seals don't care--so who really does???

Permalink Reply by Jeff Terrana on March 15, 2016 at 9:27pm

http://komonews.com/news/local/coastal-salmon-fishing-shutdown-bein...

Permalink Reply by Ben Hanes on March 15, 2016 at 9:29pm

All of this native vs non-native talk makes me think of immigration....Such a weird analogy (and I will say my opinion is pretty neutral toward immigration), but it would seem that smallmouth bass = Mexicans, Muslims, Syrians, etc.....Why is it that our country will let immigrants, per say, overrun this country, but when it comes to "immigrants," in a wildlife-sense, they want to eradicate the species (i.e. bass, walleye)?  It seems rather ironic, if you ask me....

Just a strange thought I had, as WDFW and our government seems so hell-bent on keeping "native" species around.....If we were to apply the same principle to people, we would destroy everyone in the United States besides the Native Americans.

LOL...Sorry....Just sayin'.

Permalink Reply by Ben Hanes on March 15, 2016 at 9:47pm

Jon Sessler said:

Jeff,

You are right on the money. To take it a step further, the "rights" groups know this and are pushing the divide and conquer agenda. Furthermore, they have the ability to garner funds from the users through the state via grants and subsidies and then they turn around and use the money we spent on licenses, fees, discovery passes etc. and they then use our own money against us.

A few years ago, I asked that the tournament directors, not disqualify anyone over lack of a fishing license. Just a small act of civil disobedience, to try and send a message.

JON,

I LIKE YOUR IDEA ON THE "LACK OF A FISHING LICENSE."

Jeff McBroom said:

Ryan,

First I'd like to say that it doesn't matter if it's hunting or fishing-- anytime the state succeeds in pitting sportsmen against each other (e.g., fly fishermen vs. lure fishermen,  warm water vs. salmon/steelhead,  bow hunters vs. muzzle loaders vs. Modern firearm, baiting bears vs. not baiting, ect.) the only winner ends up being the state and whatever agenda they are pushing! There might be day in the near future that the salmon fishermen wished us warm water species fishermen had their backs --and I'll tell you what--we won't. 

Permalink Reply by stevens on March 16, 2016 at 12:27am

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20160315/NEWS01/160319505/Stillagu...

I know it's not the Columbia........ But there is also no bass population that I'm aware of.

The anadromous problem is clear mismanagement

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