Tournament Fishing Participation - How do you decide?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Taylor Smith on August 10, 2015 at 7:59pm

Thanks for posting on this topic Jordan; it’s a needed discussion and good awareness for anglers around the saturation of tournaments in the Northwest.  

 

Some thoughts:

As you note, competition amongst tournament circuits just like in any open market can create better result for consumers (anglers).  Unfortunately, in tournament bass fishing, it can also have the opposite effect.

There are a limited amount of anglers in the northwest and as a ratio; the number of new anglers is growing much slower than the number of tournaments, resulting in smaller turn outs. Smaller turn outs create less excitement and  lower return on investment as you rightly mention in your post.  Decreasing excitement levels and less  potential for winnings creates a decrease in tournament anglers. It’s a vicious cycle that has proven in places like California and Southern Idaho to eventually demise a once exciting and vibrant opportunity for anglers.

 

Why?

More people/organizations/venues want a slice of the pie; Angler Pie.   Our drive for success, our thirst for competition, our ego, and our passion forces open our wallets to fund the industry.  There are more people/organizations/venues wanting a piece of that and the slices will become thinner.  It comes at a cost to us that goes beyond our wallets though. We all fish for the excitement and the competition that we feel when 80 boats are floating at blast off. It’s fun!  That’s why we do it. And an increase in tournament offerings can slowly deplete that.

How do we stop the cycle?

The important part for the anglers is to understand the downfall of increasing tournaments.  It’s up to the anglers to make tournament fishing what they want.  Understanding that a big bass tournament on Moses Lake in April (which sounds like a blast and will be tempting) permitted on the same weekend as the Northwest Bass tournament season opener on Banks (the same weekend that NWB has held its opener for 15 years) will hurt the angler base and our sport at large.  Who benefits in that scenario? 

Competition isn’t always good when time and resources are limited. As mentioned above, the unintended consequences of having too many choices are clearly evident with a quick look back in history.

One has to wonder if we as anglers can make the changes needed to save and improve our sport or if we will sit back and watch history repeat itself.

Permalink Reply by Jake Boomer on August 11, 2015 at 9:48am

I believe Taylor's perspective to be spot on, especially his reference to Southern Idaho and California tournament scenes. 

 

In reference to the NWBass opener, I believe Russ is aware he needs to move that date, and is hopefully working on it. 

 

The burden of this issue is equally shared between the anglers and the tournament organizations.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Russ Baker on August 11, 2015 at 1:08pm

I am working on changing the date for the Moses event, however I will say it will conflict with another circuit and have been approved for the 23rd & 24th of April. Now as all of you know we have looked at all the dates that each circuit has gotten in the past. Its not our intention to conflict with any event or organization as we are trying to bring something different to the table and folks are loving the format as we are averaging 73 boats per BBT event.

We appreciate all the feedback and are listening to your comments and suggestions and are doing our best to bring you something totally different with larger payouts.

Russ Baker

Permalink Reply by Russ Baker on August 11, 2015 at 2:10pm

Date has been changed for the Moses Lake Limit Out Marine  BBTT to April 23rd & 24th to not conflict with NWB and allow anglers to fish both circuits. We appreciate your input.

Russ Baker

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on August 11, 2015 at 5:09pm

Russ, your flexibility and effort for changing that date is certainly applauded but there's a few more things to consider:

1. Potholes ABA on the 23rd and 24th which is posted here and on Washington ABA's Facebook as of August 5th. 
2. Nixon's Invitational - Moses Lake is off-limits (2 weeks off limits) for the 80+ boats that will be fishing that tournament the following weekend. 

Honestly, I think the original weekend was probably better since as you said, people could still fish your event day 2. 

Permalink Reply by Angie Dover on August 11, 2015 at 5:42pm

BBTT, why would you intentionally cause a conflict that will now force angles to make a choice?
Angie

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on August 11, 2015 at 8:26pm

I agree Jeff, scheduling is brutal. Thus the reasoning for this topic :)

Permalink Reply by Jake Anderson on August 12, 2015 at 10:19pm

"It will be interesting to see how this plays out."

Diluted Novelty is not a chapter in any guide-book to success. I dont know how interesting it is going to be. Predictable is the word that comes to my mind.

I won't dissuade anyone from fishing BBTT. If that is what you want in a tournament Circuit then you weren't the right fit for ABA and NWBASS. The circuits cater to COMPLETELY different outlooks, and needs.

I fished the format this year, and I would fish it once per year as a financial opportunity. There is no glory, or sense of accomplishment. No hat to hang on one bite. Just a big ass check. If I wanted a big ass check, I'd fish the Pikeminnow circuit. A tourney every day, no entry, no off limits, purely a non endemic sponsor, and similar glory and bragging rights as BBTT.

In my opinion, if you catch a 17-18lb bag and tie for dead last, Then its a flawed design.

No sport, built to last, has a design that fails to reward exellence. However... Novelties attract people based solely on flawed design and limited supply.

So lets see what economics says about an entire circuit worth of novelty.

Permalink Reply by BigBass Dez on August 13, 2015 at 10:05am

Thank you jeff for pointing out my concerns has i clearly and honestly expressed in my previous post .

At the very least , we have directors to the point of making considerations based on our needs and wants. THANK YOU FOR THAT GENTLEMAN !!   

As for the end results , well that has yet to be determined as we can see but if nothing else it is a positive start IMO :)
 
Jeff McBroom said:

Jordan, as Big Bass Dez said--tournament directors need to work together for the good of the anglers. The answer here is simple- Russ made a good gesture moving his tournament off of the NWBASS opener. All Jeff needs to do is change his off limits period back to 1 week and everyone wins. 

BBT was in a difficult situation as far as the schedule goes for April . They either go against; NWBASS on the season opener,  Potholes Open,  or ABA East. Angie as you yourself said-- its hard to make a schedule that pleases everyone. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

Jordan Doucet said:

Russ, your flexibility and effort for changing that date is certainly applauded but there's a few more things to consider:

1. Potholes ABA on the 23rd and 24th which is posted here and on Washington ABA's Facebook as of August 5th. 
2. Nixon's Invitational - Moses Lake is off-limits (2 weeks off limits) for the 80+ boats that will be fishing that tournament the following weekend. 

Honestly, I think the original weekend was probably better since as you said, people could still fish your event day 2. 

Permalink Reply by Jake Anderson on August 14, 2015 at 5:35pm

Jeff,

Who wasn't at the big bass tourney and how'd they do the following week at NWBass? I cant recall if Vern Malensky, or if Marc Lippincott fished big bass or not, but I know Hogue/Brown, and boomer/bryan, cox/schilling were pre fishing the river and their teams combined for 60lbs.. Meanwhile Hobbs/wolsky had a 5lb largie in their live-well all day at big bass that they never got to weigh thanks to facebook, and they finish 18th at NWBass while you and loren finish 21rst, well below your historical river finishes.

I said if a big bass CIRCUIT is what you want... Then aba/nwbass isnt for you. Suggesting that ABA and NWBass anglers came to a 1-off annuall tournament doesn't challenge my point. My point was with regard to a circuit. Big difference there.

I've researched these "big bass tournies" in other regions... And you are kidding yourself if you think comparing 10 month seasons of the south, and premier fisheries located within minutes of metropolitan markets is a good comparison to our region. If you really want to talk turkey, one of the biggest big bass payouts is $320,000. It is an ANNUAL 1-time tournament. Not a circuit.

As for sense of accomplishment.... Tag and mike are one of very few true big bass chasers in this state. They are the few who are the exceptions to my blanket statement. I over-spoke there. If you go back a year and ask kelvin ratchford about the 6.66 he got on a spinnerbait... Im not sure he'll claim angling supremacy on that.

As for your data on ABA... May need some fact checking. I fished 2 of them and 35-40 boats was the deal, and 17+lbs got a check in both events I fished, paid out 6-7 places.

I think one can't miss big bass tourney per year is smart business. If you are going to create a circuit out of it, those tournies better be spread far and wide with regard to timeline and geography. Cramming them around the spawn and on top of other circuits is simply not the way to go... Not because it will hurt ABA or NWBASS but because it will fail.

Permalink Reply by Jake Anderson on August 14, 2015 at 10:52pm

I gotta bail on this thread. I could get sucked into this one forever straightening out peoples half truths.

We need to get realistic.

Priester and russ baker aren't ever going to "sit down and perfect the schedule". N. Korea and S. Korea are more likely to become best friends. They might collaborate before Iran and Israel do, but even that is a stretch.

I'd like to see Angie and Jeff work as close as they can to not conflict schedules. I'd like to see Russ create a 1 or 2 tourney per year big bass event that avoids the trails and their prefish, or if you really want to do a full blown BB circuit, then find some dates that are unique. If you aren't taking advantage of the River in October... You are missing the bus. Throw an oddball lake out there like dworshak, long lake, CDA or osoyoos. Be original for jesus sakes and use as much of the calendar as possible.

All we need at that point is the anglers to do their part....and would it kill us to say thanks to whoever the tourney director is?

Enough accusing people of having an agenda. Its the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Everyone has an agenda... Most of all, it is the anglers with the agenda, and we all have a different god damn one.

-Snake out. Headed to buoy 10. Kick rocks.

Permalink Reply by Josh Potter on August 17, 2015 at 10:23am

Most of this discussion is centered around the cutting of the pie. It is a valid discussion but also a symptom of an unhealthy situation. If the "pie" or number of tournament anglers was growing this issue would be moot.

It seems that there are quite a few guys out there that aren't fishing tournaments anymore. It would be interesting to see if those guys are all just victims of circumstance (like myself) or something else. If the number of tournament anglers is on the decline and that trend continues then it doesn't really matter who schedules what and when.

I imagine buggy whip makers having these discussions in the 30's. There is still a company out there somewhere manufacturing buggy whips....just not nearly as many now as there once was.

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