Proper Boat Position

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rob Maglio on October 15, 2013 at 6:14pm

Good Read. I know for sure that the angle you present your offering can have drastic effects. Another scenario goes like this.....You and your partner are casting and dragging leadheads along areas you know have fish but they wont bite. So you drag slower, thinking they are lethargic or the bite is slow....nothing. You get hung on a rock and pop it off and get slammed by a 4 lber. What you realize is the fish wanted that bait to be hopped rather than dragged. So you start hopping your offerings and get bit almost every other cast. Its these subtle changes you make on the water that can make the difference in the day.

Permalink Reply by Marc Marcantonio on October 15, 2013 at 6:40pm

Boat position can be very important, and experience has shown me repeatedly there is often an optimal cast and retrieve angle for many spots and conditions.  Whenever I have success on a new spot, I try to return to the spot over and over and approach it from different angles (and with different lures) to learn if one approach excels over another.  Often it does.  This is proven to me when I observe others fish a spot with limited success, only to go there after they leave and catch bass by approaching the spot from a different boat position.

 

Determining the best boat position is not too difficult when imitating certain forage like in the story you reference, since the forage imitated is trout.  Trout are fairly predictible in their movements and direction of travel once you learn about trout.  Shad are also fairly predictible once you learn of their movements based upon season, time of day, and wind conditions.  But most other forage, particularly that like we have in the Pacific Northwest, can be unpredictible and difficult to learn of an optimal boat position.  Sometimes there appears to be no optimal boat position, and other times it is very important, and in these cases it is often trial and error that dictates how I will position my boat.

 

In these cases it often is more important to pay attention to direction of current, direction of wind, and direction of the angle of the sun.  Boat position can be critical for each of these variables, and will often dictate your success.

 

I do agree that bass are far more in tune with their environment, and anglers underestimate the ability of fish to know of angler presence, especially big bass.  Big bass have greatly heightened senses compared to young bass, and they rely on this heightened awareness to dictate feeding opportunity and likelihood to strike. 

 

Gaining the optimal boat position increases your chances of drawing that strike, and whenever you have success, you would be smart to pay attention to your boat position, and to repeat it in the future.  You would also be smart to change your boat position when your success ends, and try another angle before leaving a previously productive spot.

 

ciao,
Marc Marcantonio

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on October 17, 2013 at 9:34am

Great topic and that article was a good read Joel. My thoughts on this may not be as in depth as Marc or the author, but to keep it simple, I always try to make sure my boat is in a position that allows me to fish the most effective water for the longest period of time. For example, if I am fishing offshore with a football head or dropshot and I find that fish are concentrated in 28-32' I will position my boat in 20-25' of water so that I can make an angled cast out into deeper water and bring it up into the the shallower water, all the while maintaining bottom contact while bringing it up. This allows me to make the most of each cast and ultimately have my bait in "fishy" water alot longer throughout the day.

One point I think the author hit on the head is how bigger fish have a way of sensing when something is different, ie. sonar signals, trolling motor, big motor, boat compartments closing, etc... My feeling is a long cast will do you lots of good, as long as you can present the bait in the way you need to and also have enough leverage to set the hook when you get bit - which is why braid is so important for both casting distance and hook penetration but that's a whole different topic. 

When it comes to how big bass, specifically largemouth and how they position themselves on isolated cover with deep water nearby I am no expert there. Those who have fished with me know that I am more of a chuck and wind type of guy, covering lots of water- unless I come across something obvious of course. I think to be effective as a tournament fisherman in the long run you almost have to be that way. Big fish hunters have a totally different mentality in my opinion and I would be curious to see how that approach a piece of structure where they know there is a good chance a big one may be sitting next to. 

   

Permalink Reply by Tag Watson on October 17, 2013 at 4:31pm

I personally love the simplicity of the Mike Wolsky approach (which he's proven effective many times over):

Cast towards shore.  If they're not there, cast the other direction.

Permalink Reply by Daniel Caffrey on October 17, 2013 at 5:36pm

Tag I'm glad u chimed in. Most of the biggest bass I catch are deeper than the average bass guy goes. I use a big bait; I've noticed most of the big ones I get are casting in a position where the bass would be looking towards the sun. I try other approaches too,and occasionally they respond. I havn't gotten out that much this year but last year I boated 14 fish over 6lbs. up to 9 lbs 6oz. I love getting that big bite. I would say use something big and cast at that isolated cover. Remember cover and structure are 2 different things. Cver on structure is the best, especially if it is isolated. I prefer to stay as far away as possible and cast well beyond your target. I also prefer to fish into the wind and bring my bait the direction of the wind. It just seems alittle more natural to me. Just like the article says pretend you are the prey.Oh and Jordan yeah ur right about the mentality thing. I just fished the mick and all I could think about all day was why am I fishing for brown fish.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Tag Watson on October 18, 2013 at 6:18am

Excellent article. I actually do focus a tremendous amount on boat positioning when targeting a big bite. I would rather spend the time setting up for one ideal cast than make 30 casts from I what I feel is a less than optimal angle. There are so many variables but, as always, Marc (The Godfather) did a great job of summarizing. Not too much I can add unless we start diving into specific scenarios. Dan and Jordan covered some key aspects as well.

Switching gears for a moment: I have mentioned it before in the past, but I have to give a lot of credit to Marc for being so willing to answer my questions when I was getting into the sport. He helped my learning curve tremendously on the actual fishing and also taught me how understanding the biology can play an important role in your success. Thanks again!

Permalink Reply by Don Hogue on October 18, 2013 at 10:25am

Boat positioning is no different than using a stand or blind while hunting and all of the same things need to be taken into consideration - even more so because most of the time you are looking to take several off of a spot instead of just one. For most of the year (aside from the spawn and the winter) bass are about feeding or staying safe. The problem is you can find numbers of bass in a neutral or negative mood, just loafing or staying safe. You can drag or throw things around and stumble into these fish which may or may not react. Boat position in these situations is not so critical and is probably nothing more than "since I don't want to swim while I fish, I've got to float on something".
There's always a smaller group of dominant (bigger) bass that are on the feed for brief periods of time throughout the day. Boat position becomes especially critical when targeting these bass - smaller wolf packs of larger bass.
My feeling is that these wolf packs have small areas they want to feed on - kill zones. Casts should be made to or brought to these kill zones, and your boat position has to allow you to do that with as much stealth as possible. Wind, sun, and current are all factors. Many times, I'll base when I fish a location based on what the wind, sun and current are doing and how those will impact boat position. What is often thought of as a morning spot, might be more of a boat position problem where good fish can be caught there later in the day, but the boat position has to change because of where the sun is. Also, current can help if you'll cast downstream and use the current to pin your bait to a spot, allowing it to remain in the kill zone longer. Boat position so you are casting upstream is not always the best approach. Boat position on controlled drifts is key. Many times I believe bass will react negatively to the trolling motor, so a small controlled drift where I can throw to a kill zone without moving my boat over it is crucial. I never want my boat to pass over or stay on top of the kill zone.
I want to pick bass off of the kill zone without disrupting, spooking or pulling the others away from it. Often times that cannot be helped, but I'm constantly trying to figure out how to do it. I try to use many of the same considerations that I use while trying to catch a bedding bass - stealth, distance, sun angle, wind, and what will I have to bring the fish over or through in order to get him in the boat.
I tend to be very exacting in how I fish anymore, and maybe that's not always the best way, but I can't remember the last time I dredged along the bottom with a C-Rig or football head searching for a bite. I typically have very small 10-30 yard areas that I've deemed as kill zones. I don't think you can move around much in and around these areas. You've got to put the boat in an exact spot and make exact casts. It's better to leave and come back than to stumble around it with the boat. If you are going to look it over (which is important to do), then don't expect to catch much - just the same as when scouting for a tree stand location is probably not the time to expect a shot.

Permalink Reply by Tag Watson on October 18, 2013 at 12:44pm

Amazing post, Don.  Thank you for sharing!  You are truly a wealth of knowledge.

You brought up a great point about the stealth aspect, relating it closely to hunting.  Below is a rudimentary diagram of I how set up the boat for my cast last Saturday afternoon when I caught a 10.80# largemouth from a new body of water.  I was using the pads as camouflage and I also felt this was going to be the best angle to present my lure based on the wind direction, sun angle, area layout, etc.  I had my trolling motor preset on 100 so if/when I got bit, I could tear through the pads quickly to net the fish in open water.  It ended up working out.

 

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on October 18, 2013 at 12:59pm

Don, that is great information and truly interesting when thought in terms of fishing current. I don't expect I'll see you doing any fag dragging down 2 mile stretches of the Columbia any time soon! LOL. 

Tag, killer diagram. The idea of using the pads as camo is intriguing and could be related to other kinds of surface cover as well. I love it. Did that beast eat on the first cast, or did it take a couple to get that fat girl to eat?

Permalink Reply by Tag Watson on October 18, 2013 at 1:15pm

Hey Jordan, she ate on the first cast. I've found with throwing big baits, the first cast is so critical due to the presence these large lures have in the water. While there can be a huge advantage to the drawing power of a big lure, the margin of error can also be much smaller in regards to making your presentation unnatural or off-putting to the fish.

Permalink Reply by Joel Alinen on October 18, 2013 at 10:12pm

Nice thanks guys...I agree with Tag, back when Fishing & Hunting News was my only source of bass info i would regularly email Marc and ask stupid questions like when do bass spawn in washington...thanks for being such a great ambasitor to the sport Mac! So its nice to see some life on wafish again...Don your the man and that made so much sense...thanks! Hobbs were are you !? So today I fished a lake I havent fished since this spring. I saw a big largie under a dock surrounded by pads this spring and had a feeling she would still be around in the fall...I went to the same spot and decided to setup a cast up hill in the same area and she hit 15 yards in front of the pads and dock...you would have thought she would have been under the dock with it being flat calm and sunny but she want...casting angles matter!

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Permalink Reply by Jake Anderson on October 18, 2013 at 11:50pm

Great thread. After being fortunate enough to see him do it, Don describes his methods very well, and he certainly practices what he preaches.

In my opinion, its not a method you turn on like a light switch. More of an evolution i'd say.

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