Club tournament fisherman please read

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by John Ellison on August 2, 2014 at 4:37pm

Thanks for straightening that out. My missunderstanding.

Permalink Reply by Rodney Heupel on August 2, 2014 at 5:02pm

Jordan, thank you for putting the numbers to it. I can understand your point fully and it has merit. Personally with the changes to my budget this year with my increased payout for insurance and health care thanks to our president I have had to cut my expenses. As you stated, "The trick is finding that in between entry where it makes sense to the club level angler and isn't too much money but still attracts the guys who would like to have their weekend paid for and maybe make a hundred bucks." Personally for me at $60 for a tournament entry fees and big fish pot I'm out. Or would have to cut the number I would fish in half. If I had to cut the number in half then my focus would be to fish the lakes that I'm strongest on, this to me would defeat the purpose I fish club level tournaments only. I fish to have a good time and learn while being a little bit competative with enjoyment as the goal.

Jordan Doucet said:

Rodney, the idea of keeping entry fees low seems like a good idea until you put the numbers to it, and paying the top 3 in a 50 boat tournament seems like it would be hard to pull anglers since it'd be hard to win any money at all. Granted I understand that to some people winning money is not what club angling is about and I get that, but 3 in 50 doesn't really make sense. I'm not saying that I want to offer the Obama-style bass tournament where everyone wins by any means but payout should be a few more places down with so many people. 

So for fun let's say at 50 boats and a one in 5 payout (which is generous), you would be paying 10 places. If entry was only $25 per boat you'd have a total of $1,250 IF you did not keep a percentage for the club for permits and such. Payout on $1,250 down 10 places would probably only give first place maybe $350-$375 or so. I don't know about most guys but your expenses for an entire weekend considering truck gas, boat gas, oil, entry, food, hotel (even camping), etc... if you are on the opposite side of the mountains, you might net $100 total for the weekend if you win and do everything on the cheap. Even if you bump it down to 1 in 7 payout which is pretty standard in my opinion. You are still paying 7 spots at 50 boats and maybe instead of $350 you pay $400 now. Still that doesn't make much sense. So for fun let's put it at the top 3 get paid and you do a 45/35/20 structure. That would pay $562.50/$437.50/$250. So the guy who wins a 50 boat tournament walks away and nets a couple hundred bucks for the weekend. The guy in 3rd might break even if he is cheap. I'm not sure about you, but if I place 3rd in a 50 boat tournament and break even I'm not very satisfied. 

The trick is finding that in between entry where it makes sense to the club level angler and isn't too much money but still attracts the guys who would like to have their weekend paid for and maybe make a hundred bucks. I think the $50 entry does that. Everything is more expensive these days and I for one certainly don't mind spending $50 to enter a tournament if I can walk away after a weekend with a couple hundred by placing in the top 3, or win my money back and pay for some expenses by barely being in the money. In addition to the $50 entry I agree that a $10 big fish option is a must.

Just my two cents. We're still friends, just trying to make a point and suggestion :) 

Permalink Reply by Mike Peters on August 2, 2014 at 5:57pm

I have a bit different perspective to add. As an angler who could be considered average at best, I fish at the club level for 2 reasons; cost and (hopefully) the opportunity to learn.

 

I have fished a few Open tournaments and as a general rule, and understandably so (with a few exceptions) as soon as money is put on the table, the opportunity to learn goes out the window.

 

I fish with my 14 year old son, and my focus is not on winning tournaments or winning money. My focus is very simple. To hopefully advance my skills and knowledge, and more importantly to continue to advance my sons growth in the sport.

 

If there was a circuit out there that had the focus on participation, the opportunity to learn, meet and become friends with more people all at a low cost, that is something my son and I would be all over. We would have no interest in getting into a circuit where we are donating moderate to high entry fees to others.

 

My guess is that low entry would greatly increase the participation. Just my situation, but $30 total entry my son and I are most likely in. $50 and up, no chance we even think about it.

 

P.J. I love the concept and think this could be an amazing opportunity for the club level guy if the focus remained at that level.

Permalink Reply by P.J. Koshi on August 2, 2014 at 6:11pm

Mike I totally agree and as this evolves I will continue to push for it to be a learning experience because it is still about clubs!

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on August 2, 2014 at 9:17pm

Rodney, I feel your pain with the health insurance. Mine went up 30% this year. Good thing there are guys like us so others can ride our coat tails right?

Permalink Reply by Zach Chandler on August 3, 2014 at 9:03am

Everyone has their own budget so I'm not bashing on your money management. But if you're ok with 30 for an entry but 50 bucks is a complete no-go, I would think that a guy could save 20 bucks somewhere in the 2-3 weeks between tourneys. It is a fine line to make it worthwhile for the guys who want to compete but affordable enough for the guys that just want the experience and chance to learn. Its a great idea though

Permalink Reply by P.J. Koshi on August 4, 2014 at 8:18am

Zach I kinda feel the same way.  If you are at the club level between $25 and $50 entry fees I'm assuming a circuit that cost $50 and was open to just members of clubs would be viable.  To me the $20 increase will do nothing.  I'm still going to fish yeah maybe I need to go out once or twice fewer times for lunch, but I'm fishing that tournament especially if I know there will be 40+ boats and I could win up to a few hundred dollars! I think the best way to facilitate the learning aspect is to still have the top finishers tell a little story about their weekend most clubs do this now.  Also it would be neat to coordinate places to stay for tournaments further away so that guys could get to know each other! The beauty of this is your current clubs would still function independently so; fish ins, seminars, and other learning experiences that come along with small club fishing will not go away.

Permalink Reply by Mike Peters on August 4, 2014 at 12:10pm

I don't know what your end demographic is. But I think if you are attempting to appeal to the new blood to get them more involved then the key will be low entry. I you are wanting to appeal to the established tournament angler, then higher fees may be the key. The entry level guy or guy that is too intimidated to get into the larger tournaments or expand out of the club level is going to be looking for low risk (entry fee) / high reward (opportunity to learn and gain new friends). The established guys that are not in it to make a buck will show up with a low entry. Higher entry in the format could possibly hurt the clubs that participate in their roster numbers. If the club members are not comfortable with the format/entry fees they will not show up for the events.  The end result could be dropping from the club. Not good.

I can respect your opinions on the buy ins. However, I cannot respect somebody telling me how to allocate my fishing budget. The club I belong to has optional $10 and $10 buys ins, both of which I choose not to get into. My situation is a bit different from others due to the fact that I fish with my son so some of our expenses are doubled. Either way, I have my budget set for me for a reason.

I think you have a great concept and some great ideas on how to make this a reality. Like all great ideas, there will be some speed bumps and adjustments will need to be made. Make it happen!! Then adjust to the masses if need be to make it successful. This may or may not be for my son and I. Either way, no worries. We will still fish. We fish because we love it, not because I want to make a buck.

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on August 4, 2014 at 4:55pm

You know Mike makes a great point. You could have a $30 entry fee with an optional big stringer option that pays down as well and a big fish option that pays one place. Would add a little complexity to figuring the payouts, but not bad at all really as long as you keep good track of who's in for what. I've always held my wafish tournament in the winter as a free entry and option pot only event. There's usually 1 or 2 teams that get in big fish only but for the most part everyone gets in. That may be the case here but would work well I think.   

Permalink Reply by Zach Chandler on August 4, 2014 at 8:38pm

That's a great point Jordan. Seems like the big stringer entry would be a good way appeal to both ends.

Jordan Doucet said:

You know Mike makes a great point. You could have a $30 entry fee with an optional big stringer option that pays down as well and a big fish option that pays one place. Would add a little complexity to figuring the payouts, but not bad at all really as long as you keep good track of who's in for what. I've always held my wafish tournament in the winter as a free entry and option pot only event. There's usually 1 or 2 teams that get in big fish only but for the most part everyone gets in. That may be the case here but would work well I think.   

Permalink Reply by troy kelly on August 5, 2014 at 6:00pm

To me this would seem like a no brainer great idea.  As I read through the replies I believe it really cant be about the money difference.  We're talking $20-30 different then most club tournaments.  A tournament east of the mountains for any westside fishermen will run in the hundreds in just fuel and accomodations so what is another 20 bucks?  To me when you mention club tournaments and high participation you will have alot of guys not fish it because its just not for them.  Higher participation=higher competition and I think most people don't want that.  I've been thinking about a low entry high participation option that would be mainly a westside circuit and this has the potential to be it.  In our state we have two options we have northwest and ABA which cost alot of money between entry fees and fuel cost but have higher turnouts and then we have club tournaments which have low cost and low attendance.  This idea has the potential to be a middle ground between those two options.   

Permalink Reply by Jim Owens on August 6, 2014 at 3:42pm

I think it sounds great as long as it doesn't turn into an other high level tournament circuit.  It does need to be a "Mid-Level" circuit that would both give anglers a chance to win a little money, learn more about bass fishing, and have some fun.  I agree with the low entry - higher option pot idea.  That let's you fish at the level you feel comfortable with.  I think if done right it could be a great way to bring in more anglers that may not feel they are tournament anglers.  This would give a taste of it without breaking their bank.

I would be happy to work with anyone that wanted to take a closer look at this.  I may have a few ideas on getting some sponsorship.  I know CAST would be interested in being involved.  Y'all let me know.

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