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Tournament Fishing Participation - How do you decide?
After talking to some friends of mine about tournament fishing in general, the new tournaments coming, legacy tournaments that have been around a long time, and everything in between I want to know a couple things from the people on here:
- What you think about the number of tournaments in general?
- How do you decide which ones to do?
When you stop and think about all the tournaments coming in 2016 for example it is pretty shocking to see how far spread out anglers could become. That list of tournaments in 2016 includes:
- Northwest Bass
- ABA East and West
- The New Big Bass Trail
- TBF Qualifiers
- BASS Qualifiers
- Open Tournaments
- Club Tournaments
Pretty wild when you consider how many tournaments that is and actually put those dates to the calendar and see almost every weekend with multiple events from April through September.
Here's my thoughts:
#1 In my opinion there are a limited number of tournament bass fishermen in the northwest and based on the participation of tournaments this year and in the last couple of years, almost across the board (there are a few exceptions), I would argue that so many tournaments is not good for tournament fishing in general. It appears to me that the market has become diluted already and even more events are coming up. That is not to say that I do not believe in competition. I will be the first person to tell you that when there's more competition, figure out a way to do what everyone else is doing and make it better, but unfortunately I don't see that now or in the future. I see too much of the same stuff, or see new things that just don't appeal to me. Wasn't it alot more fun and didn't it mean a heck of alot more to the anglers personally when they did well, as well as the appeal to sponsors when there were 100+ boats at an event or events in a circuit.
#2 For me, I typically choose a tournament trail based on the schedule, how "fun" the lake is to fish at the given time of year, and my level of confidence that I can get my money back. Alot of my decision making is about potential ROI for me at this point which pretty much rules out all club and qualifier events. I at least want the opportunity to make my money back if I get lucky enough to cash a check over a weekend or at least have a great time trying. So I choose the circuit where I both feel the most confident I can do well, compared with the investment and payback, and the uniqueness or amount of fun I am going to have to justify the expense. Then mix in an open tournament or two where it makes sense and doesn't conflict with prefish of whatever circuit I choose. Oh and then compare that with the family plans and events with the wife and kids.
So I'll end my rambling with a challenge to tournament directors or circuits. Use the resources you have at your disposal, listen to the anglers, work a little harder to separate yourself, think outside of the box and figure out how to stand above everything else. Maybe this is being done now and I'm missing something and if so I apologize, but I can't be the only one feeling this way.
Thoughts?
Views: 10790
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dana Steiner on
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And on the sixth day, God created Ron Hobbs.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Hanes on
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Don,
You didn't overshoot...Like I said earlier, there are a number of reasons I stopped fishing big tournaments. I just find myself on this discussion board making my case because the issue hits pretty close to home. It was a difficult decision for me to make leaving the big circuits, and I've thought a lot about why the circuits are getting smaller.....My issues were money more than anything, it was breaking my bank, and I wasn't making enough back. Very expensive sport....
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Dana Steiner said:And on the sixth day, God created Ron Hobbs.
LOL! Ha ha ha! I kind of agree with that.
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Permalink Reply by Don Hogue on
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" Is it believable to assume that ANYONE can be as good as Kevin Van Dam or Ron Hobbs?"
Yes, ANYONE can, just not EVERYONE.
Frankly, Vandam hasn't been that good lately and that Hogue guy, he sucked it up on the final day of the NW Bass Championship at Banks (notice how I put myself in the same sentence). Hobbs, he's decent. Wolsky doesn't seem all that impressed.
Tournament fishing is about finding fish that are catchable, fishing for those fish and time management. Rarely does how another team performs directly affect your performance and if it does, that is because of poor preparation on your part. Much more like golf than football or other sports. So how good others are has no impact on how good you are or at least it shouldn't.
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If anyone CAN be as good as Kevin Van Dam (or whoever is the best), then why aren't more people in the elite series? I'm sure there are lots of guys who work as hard, or even much harder than Kevin Van Dam.
I guess I don't have problem with accepting that some people are better than others at some things, and that's just the way it is: There's high school football stars who will never be good enough to be NFL stars; it's physically impossible. Similarly, there's restaurant managers who will NEVER be the top physicist in the world; it's impossible.
In the same manner, there's fisherman, based on the skills (traits) they were born with, they will never be as good as Ron Hobbs. It's impossible.
I am finding more and more the fishing community feels differently than me about this, and I think it has to do with believing THAT would affect their confidence, and their ego. Which is fine. Confidence is one of the top 3 traits required to be a successful angler, so it would seem logical that the best of anglers would believe they could be better than Kevin Van Dam, etc. because if they assumed otherwise, then it would affect their confidence negatively, and as an angler, confidence is one of their top traits.
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Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on
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Jake - ETEC comment is classic!!!
On the friday prefish opening, there's great arguments for both sides, but in the end I think that if the tournament director feels that opening Friday up for prefish, or any other rule, format or other tournament related change for that matter, will increase participation than do it. The friday prefish does open up issues like people not finding fish and leaving (which I think the deposit and/or preregistration requirement is a great idea by the way), along with other things that may need to be regulated like who you can prefish with - as there currently aren't any rules around that I know of, since a week off sort of takes care of most of the problem people would have with it. After a trial period if it doesn't work or adjustments need to be made, than make the necessary adjustments or put parameters around the rule and try it again. We all agree participation is down so if directors want to do something different to stand out and set their circuit apart, than do it.
As far as the top guys, you can't regulate how much time guys spend on the water to prep for a tournament. If they are able to put the time in, spend the money and make any other number of sacrifices to be on the water to prep for a tournament, in my opinion they should do well, as they worked hard for it. The way I see it, it's capitalism at it's finest in bass fishing terms as Don said. Does that mean the same guys generally will do well, probably yes, but this isn't the Obama run bass fishing tournament circuit here fellas. Not everyone can win and those that work hardest deserve to be rewarded. On the other hand, there's those that don't prefish that just have that gift to be able to adjust and catch'em. I'm jealous as heck of both types of guys to be honest, and I'll also be the first one to tell you that it's hard not to be discouraged when you hear guys spending 10 days prefishing for an event that I could only get out for a single day of prefish. But in general the competition is what it's all about and why most of us do it. How rewarding is it when you have "one of those days" and beat those guys that worked their ass off to do well? To me it doesn't get any better. At the same time it's also rewarding to do well after you did put in the time and effort to do your research. If you don't like the competition, then you better go back to fun fishing or maybe just club events where it's a more even playing field.
Finally – tournament directors, are you paying attention? I know the Washington ABA is. I bet one sweep through this topic could generate some changes that many are asking for and generate more interest in the circuits.
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Because being in the elites is not based off of how good you are for one.
Based on my observations over the course of a week, nobody worker harder than VanDam. Hard work is one of those misunderstood things though. I suppose I could have backed the boat down the ramp by hand and claimed to have out-worked everyone.
Anybody's success on the water happens because of a certain set of real things, that we may not all have the ability to identify and duplicate every time but it is still a long way from why Lebron can play basketball better than me.
Ben Hanes said:If anyone CAN be as good as Kevin Van Dam (or whoever is the best), then why aren't more people in the elite series? I'm sure there are lots of guys who work as hard, or even much harder than Kevin Van Dam.
I guess I don't have problem with accepting that some people are better than others at some things, and that's just the way it is: There's high school football stars who will never be good enough to be NFL stars; it's physically impossible. Similarly, there's restaurant managers who will NEVER be the top physicist in the world; it's impossible.
In the same manner, there's fisherman, based on the skills (traits) they were born with, they will never be as good as Ron Hobbs. It's impossible.
I am finding more and more the fishing community feels differently than me about this.
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Well said Jordan. No wonder why you are the moderator and creator. Thanks man.
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Don,
I think you could take Lebron one on one. I've seen you throw elbows at Ryan when your both on the front deck flipping.
Don Hogue said:Because being in the elites is not based off of how good you are for one.
Based on my observations over the course of a week, nobody worker harder than VanDam. Hard work is one of those misunderstood things though. I suppose I could have backed the boat down the ramp by hand and claimed to have out-worked everyone.
Anybody's success on the water happens because of a certain set of real things, that we may not all have the ability to identify and duplicate every time but it is still a long way from why Lebron can play basketball better than me.
Ben Hanes said:If anyone CAN be as good as Kevin Van Dam (or whoever is the best), then why aren't more people in the elite series? I'm sure there are lots of guys who work as hard, or even much harder than Kevin Van Dam.
I guess I don't have problem with accepting that some people are better than others at some things, and that's just the way it is: There's high school football stars who will never be good enough to be NFL stars; it's physically impossible. Similarly, there's restaurant managers who will NEVER be the top physicist in the world; it's impossible.
In the same manner, there's fisherman, based on the skills (traits) they were born with, they will never be as good as Ron Hobbs. It's impossible.
I am finding more and more the fishing community feels differently than me about this.
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Permalink Reply by Zach Chandler on
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This has been a pretty interesting read.
Being a guy from the outside looking in a few things stick out.
-no matter what changes are made, one thing will never change and thats that the good teams will always be good. No matter how u try to level the playing field the cream will rise to the top.
-if you like competition then competing against the best is what you want(for most). While the tiered tourney sounds novel their is already a tiered system in place. Club, qualifiers, aba/nw. With those three there is truly something for everyone depending on your definition of competition and your dedication to tourney fishing.
-I'm just a guy but what I've learned from great fishermen is that 2 things are vital for success. 1. Confidence. 2. Efficiency. If you go in doubting your ability or thinking about anything but your game plan you're behind the 8 ball.
-no off limits means more time on the water, that means more confidence and an opportunity to become more efficient on game day. + and +.
-it's 5 bites between 2 guys in like 8-10hrs of fishing. If you've done your due diligence and feel confident in your approach everyone should feel confident that they can win.
-seems that the best way to get more participation is for the tourneys to condense or just have less options available. While some other changes that have been discussed above can improve the experience, seems that the core problem is an overabundance of opportunities. -
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I wanted to make a couple final (hopefully final!) points, to elaborate on my previous proposal:
1)The reason a circuit needs to heavily sponsor the top elites in WA, OR, ID (like the 5-10 mentioned earlier) is because the rest of the anglers in the state need to see there's a tangible award to shoot for. If I/we (the masses) know that Don Hogue, Taylor Smith, Ron Hobbs, Boomer/Bryan etc. are actually MAKING money, it gives us reason to try and overthrow them. Right now we're all pretty sure they are sacrificing everything and it's still breaking the bank, or barely getting paid for. They are winning boats and still can't pay for their new boats.
2)The boat dealerships need to realize that if they don't make changes, more and more guys are going to start fishing clubs. We are tired of the costs, getting our asses handed to us all the time by the top teams, and the time involved fishing 2 full weekends for one tournament....When guys start fishing clubs, they care less about new boats, having everything updated and new, and we stop buying new boats and new gear....That's why I suggest setting the Pro's apart from the rest: give us something to shoot for (and when we're ready we'll compete with the pros), while awarding the top teams in the sport heavily. If we are a part of the group (but in a different league), and have something to shoot for, we keep buying boats and gear.
3)Even the top guys will get burnt out if they aren't making money, and sacrificing their lives. Circuits and Boat Dealers, don't let that happen.
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Jeff,
I could not help myself, some of these post are making me want to puke.......now I feel better. See you at Banks. I will be there for a month, pre-fishing everyday so I can try and beat Hobbs/Wolsky.
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