2014 Club Fish Off Roll Call

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by P.J. Koshi on October 6, 2014 at 6:23pm

Well Sunday we fished the 2014 Club Fish Off on Lake WA. There were 3 clubs there each with a full 10 person team!  Puyallup Hawg Hunters,  Castmasters, and Washington Bass Association.  I guess there's only 3 competitive Western Washington bass clubs these days... 

Team results

1st Puyallup total 48.02lbs

2nd Castmasters 47.80

3rd WBA 43.79

Congratulations to the Hawg Hunters!!! What's impressive is their best team finished 3rd overall. They were all consistent and each of their teams had 4 or 5 fish. 

Individual results

1st & Big Fish 15.85lbs Byron and Pat of Castmasters Big Fish was a 5.97lb Green!

2nd 11.98 Wes and Joel of WBA

3rd 11.97 Jaymee and Shawn

Permalink Reply by P.J. Koshi on October 6, 2014 at 8:34pm

Guys give me some feedback.  Western and North End are two clubs that I felt very disappointed not to have in attendance at this year's fish off.  Western was on the lake fishing at the same time fishing the second day of their club team tournament.  They had 7 boats and decided it was not worthwhile to enter their top 5 into the fish off.  This is the only tournament of its kind all year and it is a great way to cap off your club's tournament season. Why didn't you guys feel it was something you wanted to join?  What was most frustrating is we had this on Sunday specifically to facilitate Western's participation. Sunday is a better and more traditional family day for most so I felt bad when Western chose not to participate.  

I know the conflict with Banks is not ideal and I wish the federation would consider maybe coming to support a tournament that is geared toward the primary demographic of the TBF.  Traditionally the fish off has had up to 4 TBF affiliated clubs involved.  Since the Banks tournament is no longer a scholarship fund raiser why not rethink it or consider an alternative? Something like a centrally located club fish off say on Moses or Potholes? I know the Jamboree is essentially a club vs club event, but its in May for one and its on Banks which makes it a great travel and time burden for western Washington club members.  That's why we have had our Club fish off in the fall on lake Washington or Sammamish.

Bottom line is collaboration between organizations is essential to making these tournaments a success.  5-20 boat tournaments are hardly financially viable when you really take into account all the costs that come along with them these days!

Permalink Reply by Russ Baker on October 7, 2014 at 10:44am

PJ,

The TBF event on Banks although not still fund raising for the scholarship fund has continued to be a fund raiser for the WSBF. Part of the money earned from the WSBF open is used to fund travel for guys going to nationals, divisional, and to help support the junior program. This event has been going on for over 25 years on the same weekend in October. Collaboration is key between organizations. Its the organizers responsibility to do their homework on when other events are being held/permitted for the year. For example you mention Western. Western has held their team tournament on lake Washington the last 10 years on this date in October.

PJ the Jamboree in May does get participation from clubs on the west side - Western, Mt St Helens, Puyallup, Borderline, Evergreen all fish this event and have been for a very long time. My suggestion to you to get more participation would be to work with all the organizations involved in tournament organizing and find out when they plan on holding their events. 

I do believe a West side club event is great to have and feel it has value for all west side clubs. Planning just has to be tweaked a little bit more for it to be a success.

Permalink Reply by P.J. Koshi on October 7, 2014 at 12:39pm

To be brutally honest I'm getting to the point where hearing the tradition argument is worse than watching paint dry. If y'all are great with paying to put on a 7 or 10 boat  tournament then more power to ya. If taking home a piece of wood to hang on your wall is what gets you off awesome but that weekend cost you at minimum probably $200 in total expenses and no matter what open or club event it is if it's 15 or less boats you likely lose money even if you win. 

And if collaboration is what needs to happen why am I the only one actually putting effort into getting clubs and the federation to work together? If tradition is going to win out even if it's current state is a joke I'm giving up!

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on October 7, 2014 at 5:38pm

Well said PJ and I could not agree more. In regards to collaboration, I know that Gary and Angie collaborate on tournament dates so that ABA and NWB do not overlap, beyond that I'm not sure. But at a club/TBF/BASS level, I agree that you are the only one I have seen working towards getting clubs to work together towards a common goal of continuing education and growth. I also see these organizations complain about participation, but nobody is asking the anglers what they want, instead the schedules are made based on someones opinion, then they wonder why more people don't participate.

As for tradition, I think we can all agree that times have changed and in order to keep the sport growing and attract new people tournament schedules and formats need to be adjusted, and we need to collaborate at as many levels as possible to reduce overlap. I think new formats such as the LOM big fish tournament, pro-am type tournament, and club fishoff, in combination with revised schedules for individual/team tournaments to accommodate the target group that a circuit is going after could make a huge difference in participation.  I have seen some great strides towards this with a couple tournaments, and schedule revisions made by NWB and ABA circuits to promote some variety and hopefully pull in new anglers to those circuits. While others, I have seen schedule tournaments on the opposite side of the state from where 80% of it's participants are.

At a club level, as you say, far to many anglers I feel are happy winning a 5 boat tournament so they can get a plaque, then go home and tell their friends how great they are. Collaborating with clubs is a great way to make these events more exciting, fish against new people and encourage more learning to promote the sport. Plus, if I was a new angler, I would not be very excited to join a club after going to a tournament where there were 5 boats... 

Now getting back to your point on the club fish-off and lack of participation, there's a couple things I'd like to touch on. First, I agree that Western bagging out was crap. The tournament was moved to Sunday so they could fish, they told you they were going to fish, then the day before bagged out - but still fishing on the same body of water the same day even after you offered to weigh their fish and keep their results separate so they could continue their club team tournament. I am sure there are a couple guys that wanted to fish it, and overall I like most of the guys in that club, but as far as I'm concerned whomever made that call to not fish, whether it was collectively, or one or two people, I would consider the bridge burned there. After talking to a few people in other clubs, I know we lost at least one other club, maybe two by moving it to Sunday to accommodate Western. For Western, tradition or not, that's a bad move. 

As for the conflict with the TBF tournament, WBA has run this tournament for 6 years and it has always been a point of contention. I firmly believe that neither tournament pulls a significant number of boats from each other maybe one or two each way at most. If you look at who attended the TBF tournament, I can see 2, maybe 3 teams that would have been in the fishoff: Keith Brooks for WBA, McHenry/Cox for North End, and maybe one more out of the entire group. From the participation at the fishoff, can anyone say that if it weren't for the fish-off that they would go to banks? Probably not, but at the most maybe 1 or 2. Also, if you look at how many west-siders total were at banks I see maybe 4 or 5 teams including the ones I just mentioned. Doesn't seem like it pulls many people from west of the mountains to me overall.

In terms of scheduling dates, let's review this. We have discussed the weekend before, but got push back from too many clubs having an event that weekend and them not having their team set. We go the one prior to that even and we conflict with NWB championship. If we go one later, we intercept with the Mickelson and opening weekend for deer hunting and duck hunting - also bad for business. We go any later, then there are other hunting seasons and generally the fishing is not as good and weather unpredictable. So those are out too. So what's our choice? Conflict with the one tournament going on that is 200+ miles and 3.5-4 hours away or conflict with another weekend that has more going on.

Finally on this topic, the TBF should take note that WBA is 100% TBF as required in our bylaws and the club fishoff is our main fundraiser. Without it the last two years would WBA exist? Probably not, at least not in much of a capacity beyond a paper club. That doesn't do much for TBF support or representation. 

As for the Jamboree and that serving as a "Club Fish Off" type event. I completely disagree with that statement. Is a club crowned the winner based on results? Yes. But let's take a look at the competition and who is entering it. It appears to me that this event is and always has been more of a family function based on number of families entering, wives and kids fishing it, the timing of blast-off and fishing hours. This is all great, good for the sport too encourage families, etc.. and I am not saying anything against it. But the point I am making is the atmosphere at the club fishoff WBA puts on is vastly different than that at the Jamboree from what I can tell, but maybe I am missing something as I have only done it once.

Long story short, keep up the good work PJ. Those of us that realize what you are trying to do really appreciate it, and if only we could get some buy in to work together as clubs/organizations I think we could make some steps in the right direction to draw some new anglers and participation.  

P.J. Koshi said:

To be brutally honest I'm getting to the point where hearing the tradition argument is worse than watching paint dry. If y'all are great with paying to put on a 7 or 10 boat  tournament then more power to ya. If taking home a piece of wood to hang on your wall is what gets you off awesome but that weekend cost you at minimum probably $200 in total expenses and no matter what open or club event it is if it's 15 or less boats you likely lose money even if you win. 

And if collaboration is what needs to happen why am I the only one actually putting effort into getting clubs and the federation to work together? If tradition is going to win out even if it's current state is a joke I'm giving up!

Permalink Reply by P.J. Koshi on October 9, 2014 at 12:51pm

If my comments offended anyone I truly apologize. I know there are a lot of good clubs in Western Washington that were not represented and I mainly want to get to the root of why. It seems scheduling is big as well as inconsistent communication between club decision makers and club body members. Soke clubs are also just real low on members...

I have pretty much single handedly forged a great partnership with Western Bass Club that I feel was a huge success this season and should last into the future. I accepted a request from North End this year to team up on an event I was running with Western and that was a great experience as well that involved 3 clubs! We are quite possibly going to have 3 clubs participating in our club tournament circuit next year which I think will be awesome!

Permalink Reply by Jordan Doucet on October 9, 2014 at 1:29pm

Don,

Thank you for the feedback and your thoughts. I think I speak for PJ when I say that we are not trying to make any enemies here, rather just trying to air our opinion on what happened in a direct way to raise some awareness of the issues and hopefully find a way to come together and grow. 

I appreciate that you provided the reasoning for not fishing the event, however, the format of the tournament is and always has been the top 5 teams. Even the WBA that puts this on, leaves boats at home for those who didn't make the team and I'm sure other clubs do as well. That is part of the intrigue of the event in my opinion and should not be a deterrent, rather those who don't make the team should work to get better so they can fish it next year. Fish the club events throughout the year and try to make top 10 so you can be in the fish-off - that's the idea we are going for. In my opinion, this isn't elementary school basketball where everyone makes the team and everyone plays. This tournament is meant to be a bit more competitive. 

I compare it to playing basketball in High-School. Everyone is friends, there are a number of guys who want to make the team, but eventually someone's feelings might get hurt because they got cut. How they respond is up to them, either they come back next year motivated to do better, or do the same old thing and maybe don't make the team again. 

Also, I'm not sure if you were aware of this, but PJ invited all 7 boats of Western to come launch down south at Coulon with us, we'd take your 5 boat team and let the others fish as well without their results counting towards the team, but we'd weigh your fish so you could have your final club standings. Seems like that'd take care of the problem of those not being included.

Don Hankinson said:

Guys, I want to say a couple things.  I have been a member of Western since 1992. I have seen people come, and people go.  The reason why I have remained a member is WBC has always been about the individual and their families.  My kids grew up with WBC and I have made a lot of friends. Keeping the tournaments a "fun" event without the serious competition has always been crucial. I quit fishing the Jamboree years ago due to ridiculous drive times and the teams that show such serious competitive natures.  We do these tourneys for the WOOD that hangs on the wall, not the money.  Many people in the club have dropped their participation due to ridiculous gas prices, rising camping fees, a troubled economy, etc. None of us go to "make money", and, its silly to ever think you can at a club event. I for one, would gladly fish your event but, the decision was made that it would be unfair to tell 2 of the 7 boats that they could not represent WBC because (?). There's the real problem. They didn't do well enough? We already have 5?  Maybe reformatting the event in the future would work. Take the total weight of the entire club, divide it by how many boats attended, be it 10 or 7 and come up with an average.  That average would be the clubs competitive weight to decide the winner.  ?????  Just a thought...
 
Jordan Doucet said:

Well said PJ and I could not agree more. In regards to collaboration, I know that Gary and Angie collaborate on tournament dates so that ABA and NWB do not overlap, beyond that I'm not sure. But at a club/TBF/BASS level, I agree that you are the only one I have seen working towards getting clubs to work together towards a common goal of continuing education and growth. I also see these organizations complain about participation, but nobody is asking the anglers what they want, instead the schedules are made based on someones opinion, then they wonder why more people don't participate.

As for tradition, I think we can all agree that times have changed and in order to keep the sport growing and attract new people tournament schedules and formats need to be adjusted, and we need to collaborate at as many levels as possible to reduce overlap. I think new formats such as the LOM big fish tournament, pro-am type tournament, and club fishoff, in combination with revised schedules for individual/team tournaments to accommodate the target group that a circuit is going after could make a huge difference in participation.  I have seen some great strides towards this with a couple tournaments, and schedule revisions made by NWB and ABA circuits to promote some variety and hopefully pull in new anglers to those circuits. While others, I have seen schedule tournaments on the opposite side of the state from where 80% of it's participants are.

At a club level, as you say, far to many anglers I feel are happy winning a 5 boat tournament so they can get a plaque, then go home and tell their friends how great they are. Collaborating with clubs is a great way to make these events more exciting, fish against new people and encourage more learning to promote the sport. Plus, if I was a new angler, I would not be very excited to join a club after going to a tournament where there were 5 boats... 

Now getting back to your point on the club fish-off and lack of participation, there's a couple things I'd like to touch on. First, I agree that Western bagging out was crap. The tournament was moved to Sunday so they could fish, they told you they were going to fish, then the day before bagged out - but still fishing on the same body of water the same day even after you offered to weigh their fish and keep their results separate so they could continue their club team tournament. I am sure there are a couple guys that wanted to fish it, and overall I like most of the guys in that club, but as far as I'm concerned whomever made that call to not fish, whether it was collectively, or one or two people, I would consider the bridge burned there. After talking to a few people in other clubs, I know we lost at least one other club, maybe two by moving it to Sunday to accommodate Western. For Western, tradition or not, that's a bad move. 

As for the conflict with the TBF tournament, WBA has run this tournament for 6 years and it has always been a point of contention. I firmly believe that neither tournament pulls a significant number of boats from each other maybe one or two each way at most. If you look at who attended the TBF tournament, I can see 2, maybe 3 teams that would have been in the fishoff: Keith Brooks for WBA, McHenry/Cox for North End, and maybe one more out of the entire group. From the participation at the fishoff, can anyone say that if it weren't for the fish-off that they would go to banks? Probably not, but at the most maybe 1 or 2. Also, if you look at how many west-siders total were at banks I see maybe 4 or 5 teams including the ones I just mentioned. Doesn't seem like it pulls many people from west of the mountains to me overall.

In terms of scheduling dates, let's review this. We have discussed the weekend before, but got push back from too many clubs having an event that weekend and them not having their team set. We go the one prior to that even and we conflict with NWB championship. If we go one later, we intercept with the Mickelson and opening weekend for deer hunting and duck hunting - also bad for business. We go any later, then there are other hunting seasons and generally the fishing is not as good and weather unpredictable. So those are out too. So what's our choice? Conflict with the one tournament going on that is 200+ miles and 3.5-4 hours away or conflict with another weekend that has more going on.

Finally on this topic, the TBF should take note that WBA is 100% TBF as required in our bylaws and the club fishoff is our main fundraiser. Without it the last two years would WBA exist? Probably not, at least not in much of a capacity beyond a paper club. That doesn't do much for TBF support or representation. 

As for the Jamboree and that serving as a "Club Fish Off" type event. I completely disagree with that statement. Is a club crowned the winner based on results? Yes. But let's take a look at the competition and who is entering it. It appears to me that this event is and always has been more of a family function based on number of families entering, wives and kids fishing it, the timing of blast-off and fishing hours. This is all great, good for the sport too encourage families, etc.. and I am not saying anything against it. But the point I am making is the atmosphere at the club fishoff WBA puts on is vastly different than that at the Jamboree from what I can tell, but maybe I am missing something as I have only done it once.

Long story short, keep up the good work PJ. Those of us that realize what you are trying to do really appreciate it, and if only we could get some buy in to work together as clubs/organizations I think we could make some steps in the right direction to draw some new anglers and participation.  

P.J. Koshi said:

To be brutally honest I'm getting to the point where hearing the tradition argument is worse than watching paint dry. If y'all are great with paying to put on a 7 or 10 boat  tournament then more power to ya. If taking home a piece of wood to hang on your wall is what gets you off awesome but that weekend cost you at minimum probably $200 in total expenses and no matter what open or club event it is if it's 15 or less boats you likely lose money even if you win. 

And if collaboration is what needs to happen why am I the only one actually putting effort into getting clubs and the federation to work together? If tradition is going to win out even if it's current state is a joke I'm giving up!

Permalink Reply by Ronald Hobbs, Jr. on October 9, 2014 at 9:02pm

Definetely off topic but I am member of Northwest Bass, remember we do pay membership dues, does that mean we can put together a team or teams to compete next year? I couldn't see turning down 2 teams from 1 club. What dictates being a club? Paper clubs that TBF and FN have are less than a club than NW Bass IMO. So guess what I am ssaying TBF recognizes these paper clubs as clubs, then NW Bass and further more ABA should be recognized and invited to the club fish off.

Permalink Reply by Chad Simon on October 10, 2014 at 6:05am

I agree, and like I stated years ago, WAFISH should put together a team. This tournament supports WBA, so why draw a line? Of course back in the good old days Evergreen used to use this as one of our fundraisers as well :) You might know a little something about that!
 
Ronald Hobbs, Jr. said:

Definetely off topic but I am member of Northwest Bass, remember we do pay membership dues, does that mean we can put together a team or teams to compete next year? I couldn't see turning down 2 teams from 1 club. What dictates being a club? Paper clubs that TBF and FN have are less than a club than NW Bass IMO. So guess what I am ssaying TBF recognizes these paper clubs as clubs, then NW Bass and further more ABA should be recognized and invited to the club fish off.

Permalink Reply by Dana Steiner on October 31, 2014 at 3:01pm

PJ,

Hang in there, your heart and compassion are in the right place. You are dealing with a tough situation that has no simple answers. I've been at this for over 30 years now, personal ego's complicate logical decisions. You have my support and I encourage you to path forward.
 
P.J. Koshi said:

Guys give me some feedback.  Western and North End are two clubs that I felt very disappointed not to have in attendance at this year's fish off.  Western was on the lake fishing at the same time fishing the second day of their club team tournament.  They had 7 boats and decided it was not worthwhile to enter their top 5 into the fish off.  This is the only tournament of its kind all year and it is a great way to cap off your club's tournament season. Why didn't you guys feel it was something you wanted to join?  What was most frustrating is we had this on Sunday specifically to facilitate Western's participation. Sunday is a better and more traditional family day for most so I felt bad when Western chose not to participate.  

I know the conflict with Banks is not ideal and I wish the federation would consider maybe coming to support a tournament that is geared toward the primary demographic of the TBF.  Traditionally the fish off has had up to 4 TBF affiliated clubs involved.  Since the Banks tournament is no longer a scholarship fund raiser why not rethink it or consider an alternative? Something like a centrally located club fish off say on Moses or Potholes? I know the Jamboree is essentially a club vs club event, but its in May for one and its on Banks which makes it a great travel and time burden for western Washington club members.  That's why we have had our Club fish off in the fall on lake Washington or Sammamish.

Bottom line is collaboration between organizations is essential to making these tournaments a success.  5-20 boat tournaments are hardly financially viable when you really take into account all the costs that come along with them these days!

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